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17 Terrain 3.6 W/ 61K .So update on my previous post about bad head gasket and head. So i believe in March i had at the dealer for a blown head gasket. They replaced the gasket and the head. But i had to take it back because of some lifter noise. They checked it out and i guess got the lifters to seat or something. Coolant bottle was still getting low every few days so i thought maybe a small leak somewhere. Seems it was fine for a few months but then started ticking again on cold starts. Then it would be doing all the time. So i took it back to the dealer. So after tearing it down a few times it was determined that the block was cracked. That was causing the slow coolant leak. So it has been at the dealer since Aug 4th. I guess they had to order the engine and it is taking a little bit to get. But i have a loaner. And the coolant bottle thing i noticed when i first bought it last July 2020. So the block was definitely cracked since then. I should have taken it back sooner for that because coolant does not just disappear on it's own. But it's covered under warranty
 

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Wow . .. good to hear at least it is being covered and you have a loaner. It is trying times these days to get parts for just about anything in a timely manner. Frustrating.

Keep us all updated in this new thread!
 

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@Sngtrkr20 : Whoa! Glad this is not costing you anything!

But I have to ask: weren't you seeing LOW COOLANT warning messages in your Instrument cluster (or does this vehicle not have such a warning)? I know my 2002 Impala does. There's a sensor that sits in the radiator up by the filler neck, and if it's not wet, you get the (unmistakable and very clear) LOW COOLANT message in your cluster!

And then you immediately check the level, fill if necessary, and start looking for the leak. But when the warning appears, you should still have plenty of coolant to avoid damage to the heads (or certainly a cracked block!). But you shouldn't be driving around for days and days without filling enough to make the LOW COOLANT message go away, either ...
 

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No. Not at all. I would just notice that the bottle was low every few days. And when i bought the car last July 2020 the after i got it i went out in the morning and checked the fluids and noticed the bottle was empty and the oil was low. So i believe the block prolly had an issue then. Called the dealer and they said to bring it in and they will do a pit stop on it ( check all the fluids top off and change the oil). And after that the bottle was always going low every few days or so. I just assumed it had a tiny leak somewhere. Never no driving issues or overheating. tI wasn't until March of this year that it started smoking and the head gasket was getting worse and worse. That is when the starter fried out because of hydro lock in the cylinder head.
 

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@Sngtrkr20 : Wow! Sounds like it was mis-managed? I'd bet GM can't wait to go full EV and put all these engine problems behind them. It remains to be seen whether EVs will be any more reliable than ICEs, but maintenance should be a lot more streamlined, with a lot less fraud .. and that's gotta be a lot better for the bottom line.
 

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@Sngtrkr20 : Wow! Sounds like it was mis-managed? I'd bet GM can't wait to go full EV and put all these engine problems behind them. It remains to be seen whether EVs will be any more reliable than ICEs, but maintenance should be a lot more streamlined, with a lot less fraud .. and that's gotta be a lot better for the bottom line.
I'm all for EVs and might very well get one down the road (might not even have the choice at some point) but I think the industry is going to end up changing one set of issues and potential failure modes for a bunch of new ones. My concern is that the old ones are fairly typical and with known methods to correct where the new issues will require a whole bunch of learning by the whole industry. Could mean long delays to get issues resolved at the dealer and it would only be the dealer you could go to. Have you ever seen a full tear down of the EV powertrain? Makes even today's high tech ICEs look like child's play. I fear vehicles are going to be disposable once the warranty runs out. In the end, is that really going to be better for the environment?
Far cry from my 27yr old mustang that I can repair myself for just about all problems that might arise!
 

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@Sngtrkr20 : Wow! Sounds like it was mis-managed? I'd bet GM can't wait to go full EV and put all these engine problems behind them. It remains to be seen whether EVs will be any more reliable than ICEs, but maintenance should be a lot more streamlined, with a lot less fraud .. and that's gotta be a lot better for the bottom line.
LOL . . . seriously? You think they won't find safety and maintenance resasons to charge for regular service work for EVs?
Instead of a regular brake job, they will charge for checking, calibrating, and adjusting your RGR. . . "Regenerative Brake System". And don't forget the special brake fluid and pads that requires (speculating).
Then there is the annual "Battery Pack Life and Wear Level" checks, the high tech HVAC and electrical system checks, etc.
If there's a way to make money on EVs for maintenance. . .. they will *nervous * owners into paying for the technical maintenance the service departments will "suggest".

All in my humble opinion and (somewhat) tongue in cheek. :D
 
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LOL . . . seriously? You think they won't find safety and maintenance resasons to charge for regular service work for EVs?
Instead of a regular brake job, they will charge for checking, calibrating, and adjusting your RGR. . . "Regenerative Brake System". And don't forget the special brake fluid and pads that requires (speculating).
Then there is the annual "Battery Pack Life and Wear Level" checks, the high tech HVAC and electrical system checks, etc.
If there's a way to make money on EVs for maintenance. . .. they will *nervous * owners into paying for the technical maintenance the service departments will "suggest".

All in my humble opinion and (somewhat) tongue in cheek. :D
This is not far from the truth. Just take a look at the maintenance schedule for the Ford Mustang Mach-E. Just because EVs don't have traditional engines doesn't mean they are maintenance free. It is just a different type of maintenance. Dealers will still try to make a mint off of these services.

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You raise a lot of good questions in a very short message ... and I've thought the same things myself, but here's my take on it:

I think the industry is going to end up changing one set of issues and potential failure modes for a bunch of new ones.
Yeah, the problems will definitely be different ... but they'll be far fewer of them, and then they'll be more streamlined, which will make maintenance much easier. Long-term, I think some dealerships will disappear (probably the smaller ones), and some Independent repair shops will go out with them, too - because more of the (ever-shrinking) maintenance "pie" will go to the surviving Dealerships. Can you make a living just doing brake jobs? Maybe. But if people are going to the Dealerships for just about everything else, are they going to go to an Independent shop just for their brakes?

My concern is that the old [problems] are fairly typical and with known methods to correct where the new issues will require a whole bunch of learning by the whole industry.
There will be a learning curve, yeah ... but EVs will remove all that internal engine complexity and replace it with a far-simpler modular battery pack. The learning curve will be very short and flat in this direction. Replacing a single Module in a battery pack - even if you have to move heaven and earth to get to it, is still going to be far easier (and less error-prone) than dismantling a conventional engine, piece by piece, to get down to some bad internal component buried deep inside! And then you have to put it all back together again, piece by piece ... making sure you've used all the correct fasteners, replacement pieces and parts, and torqued everything exactly right, etc. etc. Sure - there's a lot of pride in doing all that, but it's also highly error-prone! It's really a miracle that conventional engines run as reliably as they do, for as long as they do, when you consider all the parts and pieces that are in there! And then, there you are, as a manufacturer, mass-producing 10's or 100's of thousands of these ICE vehicles on your assembly line, and you find out that one or more vendors you're sourcing some of these tiny parts and pieces from has sent you some defective ones! OMG! Now you have to recall all these vehicles and fix them! What a headache! The battery pack of an EV is going to largely eliminate all of that!

Could mean long delays to get issues resolved at the dealer and it would only be the dealer you could go to.
I don't think so because it's just gonna be wholesale replacement of parts. Take all those convoluted and detailed ICE repair steps out and replace with higher-level steps like:

1.) Remove Battery Pack
2.) Replace defective Module
3.) Reinstall Battery Pack.
4.) Done.

I fear vehicles are going to be disposable once the warranty runs out. In the end, is that really going to be better for the environment?
Well, we've had Hybrids for over 20 years now, and I don't see or hear anything about those piling up anywhere. I think it'll be like your cell phone: the battery will degrade over time, and some will trade up for a replacement (like they would've anyway with an ICE), while others will keep charging and adjusting to the lower range until they can't stand it anymore. I would bet, overall, owners will be happier because they'll still get 10 years out of the vehicle, and with far less anxiety along the way because the repairs will be fewer and farther between, and the costs will be very predicable.

Far cry from my 27yr old mustang that I can repair myself for just about all problems that might arise!
Yup! Some people (us DIY-ers) will miss that tactile aspect of auto ownership - the satisfaction of fixing your vehicle yourself ... but there will still be some fluids to change, some brake pads to replace, and some filters ... so you won't totally be off the hook.

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@JayTee2014 & @arcee : Yeah ... I'm sure Dealerships will continue to do what they always do (maybe even more so with EVs) to fabricate work for themselves, but it's going to be a lot harder for them. They may have to invert their model and start making more money on the sale of vehicles instead of relying on the servicing! So they may become more like Sears used to be: selling refrigerators, first and foremost, but also providing some servicing when necessary.

And I'm also fully expecting auto manufactures to start playing the software "game" with EVs: "we don't support that old software anymore. You'll have to upgrade your hardware first in order to load the new software!". So they'll keep the money coming in that way, too ...
 

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Playing the software game is normal these days. Even Microsoft is doing it with Windows 11 and they don't even really sell systems other than the Surface and Surface Pro. It's great for the system manufacturers but not very consumer friendly.

GM did it on the 2nd Gen Equinox and Terrain with built-in nav. They stopped updating the maps years ago because the hardware stopped being able to handle the updates.

Android phones and apps are the same way. Eventually the hardware can't run the latest OS, and then apps stop updating because the OS is outdated. I usually get 5 years out of an Android phone before it becomes obsolete.

EVs are basically rolling computers so it just seems natural that they will become obsolete. I believe we have already started seeing that with early Teslas.
 

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All good points but bottom line is you can maintain and run a current ICE powered car easily for 15-20yrs or more if you wanted. I don't see that happening with EV's. Once the battery warranty is up you could be on the hook for some eye opening replacement costs if anything in the motor or battery or some of the control hardware fails. Wasn't there something in the news a few weeks ago were a Tesla owner was quoted something like $23,000 to replace their battery!
I'm assuming EVs will be in my future but I won't be holding on to any of them past the warranty period.
 
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You raise a lot of good questions in a very short message ... and I've thought the same things myself, but here's my take on it

EVs will remove all that internal engine complexity and replace it with a far-simpler modular battery pack. The learning curve will be very short and flat in this direction. Replacing a single Module in a battery pack - even if you have to move heaven and earth to get to it, is still going to be far easier (and less error-prone) than dismantling a conventional engine, piece by piece, to get down to some bad internal component buried deep inside! And then you have to put it all back together again, piece by piece ... making sure you've used all the correct fasteners, replacement pieces and parts, and torqued everything exactly right, etc. etc. Sure - there's a lot of pride in doing all that, but it's also highly error-prone! It's really a miracle that conventional engines run as reliably as they do, for as long as they do, when you consider all the parts and pieces that are in there! And then, there you are, as a manufacturer, mass-producing 10's or 100's of thousands of these ICE vehicles on your assembly line, and you find out that one or more vendors you're sourcing some of these tiny parts and pieces from has sent you some defective ones! OMG! Now you have to recall all these vehicles and fix them! What a headache! The battery pack of an EV is going to largely eliminate all of that!
Colt. . for someone who drives their vehicles for 222,222 miles how much of the above ICE repairs have you had to do? Most of what you ever posted is how little repairs you had to do and just ignore or avoid.
:D And yet. . . your trusty ICE Impala and Equinox keep going.

I think your estimation on your theoretical ICE repair/maintenance is seriously over estimated.
 

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All good points but bottom line is you can maintain and run a current ICE powered car easily for 15-20yrs or more if you wanted. I don't see that happening with EV's. Once the battery warranty is up you could be on the hook for some eye opening replacement costs if anything in the motor or battery or some of the control hardware fails. Wasn't there something in the news a few weeks ago were a Tesla owner was quoted something like $23,000 to replace their battery!
I'm assuming EVs will be in my future but I won't be holding on to any of them past the warranty period.

I agree. Some Toyota Prius owners have already found that out. And now the EV industry is facing potential disposal costs for battery packs likely to be passed on to owners when the time comes.

The high cost for maintenance on EVs is just delayed and hidden.
Until the time comes.
 

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I'm tired of paying road taxes with my gas purchases. Time to drop the tax hammer on EV drivers who have been getting a free ride unlike the rest of us.
 

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I'm tired of paying road taxes with my gas purchases. Time to drop the tax hammer on EV drivers who have been getting a free ride unlike the rest of us.
The plans being investigated to address this very issue actually result in ICE owners paying more in taxes than they do currently. Be careful what you wish for.

I calculated the hypothetical new taxes for my state and I would pay 3x more in tax under their VMT plan than I currently pay in State gas tax. Then you add the Federal VMT to it (compared to the Federal gas tax it would supposedly replace) and it just gets worse.

The proposed federal VMT would be paid annually. My state's proposed VMT would be paid quarterly. The Federal Government has already earmarked $150M to investigate how to get a VMT tax implemented at the federal level and some of those funds are also being given to states to also help them implement VMT taxes.
 

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Colt. . for someone who drives their vehicles for 222,222 miles how much of the above ICE repairs have you had to do? Most of what you ever posted is how little repairs you had to do and just ignore or avoid.
:D And yet. . . your trusty ICE Impala and Equinox keep going.

I think your estimation on your theoretical ICE repair/maintenance is seriously over estimated.
Well, true ... I, personally, have not had much trouble in 30+ years now: replaced a Mitsubishi transmission and clutch for $600 in 1995 at 170k miles (currently at 255k), a head gasket job on the '97 Taurus at 224,000 miles (currently at 230k), a lower intake gasket job on the '02 Impala at 104k miles (currently at 240k), and so far nothing major on the '11 Equinox (almost 170k).

But manufacturers have been victimized over he years with the costs associated with tearing apart and rebuilding ICEs. I can see how they can't wait to get rid of ICE products. I would want to get rid of them, too, if I was running any auto manufacturer. It's like any other product that has transitioned from mechanical moving parts to solid state. They just gotta get the battery thing refined over time, and they'll probably accomplish that. I almost bought a Bolt recently, but decided to hold off when the fire problem cropped up, but also because the charging time on their batteries still isn't quite good enough to be a "#1" vehicle (at least for me). Tesla seems to have it figured out better, but I'm not paying $50,000 for a Tesla.
 

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I'm tired of paying road taxes with my gas purchases. Time to drop the tax hammer on EV drivers who have been getting a free ride unlike the rest of us.
They are doing it (now) state-to-state. I saw someone on the Bolt forum saying GA was charging him $200/year (I believe he said).

But it's related to fuel economy (right now).

For your Traverse, in NJ, with a gas tax of 42 cents/gallon (is that right??), if you fill it up once per week (~20 gallons), that's $8.40/week in gas taxes, or $437/year.

If you were driving an ICE vehicle similar to a Bolt ... say, a Chevy Trax, and filling that up every week (~14 gallons), your tax cost would be $306/year

Someone driving a newer Prius up in NJ is probably paying something like $110/year. When NJ hits them with a hybrid charge (maybe they already are?), it'll probably be around $100/year, to bring them to the $200 level.

A co-worker was mentioning the other day some plan to put mileage trackers in all vehicles and do it that way? That's the most accurate way to do it, but there are obvious issues with that, too...
 

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My '11 Tahoe is a 19 mpg highway vehicle, guess I'm really picking up the EV tab with it.
But with EV rebates, discounts or govt. programs or what ever incentives there is out there they still are getting a big break.
Mileage tracking is IMO a serious invasion of privacy, just like proposed taxation with tracking ones cash flow.
Never ever think or say "they will never do that''. Brandon is heading that way....
 
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But with EV rebates, discounts or govt. programs or what ever incentives there is out there they still are getting a big break.
But who's gonna buy a Chevy Bolt for $40k+? That's nuts! To me, a Bolt is an "Econobox" - like a Chevy Trax - with a battery pack. You can buy a Chevy Trax for under $20k, so the Bolt is a $25k car. That's it! And indeed, with all the heavy discounting going on blowing out the 2020 and 2021 Bolt inventory just ahead of the 2017-2022 "fire" recall (which EV stalwarts claim no connection), you could get an LT trim for $24-$25k and a Premier trim for $27-$28k. Those numbers make sense to me, but $40-$45k MSRP pricing is just ridiculous!
 
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