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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Does anybody consider engine wear when choosing a motor oil? There are plenty of threads, references, opinions, recommendations, and information in the forum regarding engine oil. I read about "Bob the oil guy", Amsoil and exended intervals, Penzoil Ultra and detergent properties, use of specific oils in fancy automobiles, etc., etc., and on, and on.

What about engine wear? Specifically, the Independent 3rd party industry standard sequence IVA test to measure how effective an oil is at protecting the engine against wear has not been mentioned in the forum. Why? See http://www.swri.org/4org/d08/gastests/ivatest/default.htm
 

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Because the IVA test is kind of an old school test that really doesnt show anything. Thats like putting a sheet down on your carpet and then stacking cinder blocks on it one at a time and seeing how long it takes to rip the sheet when you pull it.

If an engine has excess pressure and wear on certain parts, they will fail no matter what oil you use.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
bballr4567 said:
Because the IVA test is kind of an old school test that really doesnt show anything. Thats like putting a sheet down on your carpet and then stacking cinder blocks on it one at a time and seeing how long it takes to rip the sheet when you pull it.

If an engine has excess pressure and wear on certain parts, they will fail no matter what oil you use.
Old school is sometimes the best school. I really don't think that your analogy is accurate or applicable in this situation since a sheet, carpet, and cinder blocks clearly have very different material characteristics and mechanical properties compared with a camshaft and rocker. Actually, the standardized sequence IVA test measures quite accurately how well a motor oil protects the camshaft and the rocker against wear in everyday driving situations. As you can see, this is materially quite different than the analogy that you have proposed.
 

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you read wayyyyy too much into engine wear.....from this and other posts......

this isnt a 12,000 rpm race engine....
 

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wbassnp007 said:
Old school is sometimes the best school. I really don't think that your analogy is accurate or applicable in this situation since a sheet, carpet, and cinder blocks clearly have very different material characteristics and mechanical properties compared with a camshaft and rocker. Actually, the standardized sequence IVA test measures quite accurately how well a motor oil protects the camshaft and the rocker against wear in everyday driving situations. As you can see, this is materially quite different than the analogy that you have proposed.
Not really. A rocker has a set lift pressure and that is it. Putting EXCESSIVE pressure on the cam proves nothing. If your rocker is putting excessive pressure on it, no amount of oil is going to stop catastrophic damage.

Again, all modern oil is good, even the crappy stuff. Back when the IVA test was made up, oil was crap. You could seriously wear out some parts in the motor just driving it regular by using the wrong oil, therefor, the test was made up. Not to mention, motors are far better built with far tighter tolerances than before.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
gar187er said:
you read wayyyyy too much into engine wear.....from this and other posts......

this isnt a 12,000 rpm race engine....
Actually, the sequence IVA test is performed by revving an engine at 800 rpm for 50 minutes, then increases rpm to 1500 for 10 minutes. This is repeated every hour. After 25 hours, the engine is measured for signs of wear, and this process is repeated for a total of 100 hours.

I'm not sure where you came up with the "12,000 rpm race engine". Actually, the sequence IVA test is useful for everyday driving situations.

With regards to "reading way too much into engine wear", please inform me of other criteria which deserve greater weight and consideration than camshaft and rocker wear. The most basic function of oil is its ability to protect the engine against wear.

The sequence IVA test measures physical wear in microns(one millionth of a meter). Although a micron isn't much, the wearing of over 90 microns by the end of the test results in a failing grade; and over time a failed engine.
 

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It seems to me that you have a tendacy to dissect and evaluate everything down to minute detail..whether oil..cleaning products..air/nitro..etc. Nothing at all wrong with that...but more often found mainly on high performance or sportscar forums. Surely this isn't the first vehicle that you've owned?
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
IceMan said:
It seems to me that you have a tendacy to dissect and evaluate everything down to minute detail..whether oil..cleaning products..air/nitro..etc. Nothing at all wrong with that...but more often found mainly on high performance or sportscar forums. Surely this isn't the first vehicle that you've owned?
The closest I ever came to a sports car was 8 feet in front of a Sony. I like your handle "IceMan" 8). The Terrain is the best vehicle ever I have ever had the pleasure of driving.
 

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wbassnp007 said:
The closest I ever came to a sports car was 8 feet in front of a Sony. I like your handle "IceMan" 8). The Terrain is the best vehicle ever I have ever had the pleasure of driving.
Good Deal..!...And it sounds like you really want to take care of it and give it the best! ;)
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
IceMan said:
Good Deal..!...And it sounds like you really want to take care of it and give it the best! ;)
Exactly IceMan...it's about the vehicle!
 

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wbassnp007 said:
Actually, the sequence IVA test is performed by revving an engine at 800 rpm for 50 minutes, then increases rpm to 1500 for 10 minutes. This is repeated every hour. After 25 hours, the engine is measured for signs of wear, and this process is repeated for a total of 100 hours.
cool story bro
I'm not sure where you came up with the "12,000 rpm race engine". Actually, the sequence IVA test is useful for everyday driving situations.
i pulled it outta thin air.....this a daily driver....engine is produced in the tens of thousands.....you dont need to analyze it like you would an f1 engine....

With regards to "reading way too much into engine wear", please inform me of other criteria which deserve greater weight and consideration than camshaft and rocker wear. The most basic function of oil is its ability to protect the engine against wear.
read above.......normal dino oil from walmart shelves is 100% ok, and as was discussed in another one of your threads, oil will not be the cause of engine failure.....

The sequence IVA test measures physical wear in microns(one millionth of a meter). Although a micron isn't much, the wearing of over 90 microns by the end of the test results in a failing grade; and over time a failed engine.
thats nice....tests mean very little.....all makers have their own ways of doing things.....what an indy lab does has ZERO impact on how they produce an engine.....
 

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So, use any brand name oil syn or dino and change at the RECOMMENDED intervals , with filter, and you won't go wrong. It'' ll drive you crazy trying to figure if this oil will lubricate that particular engine one minute longer then another oil and vice versa.
 

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GARYD said:
So, use any brand name oil syn or dino and change at the RECOMMENDED intervals , with filter, and you won't go wrong. It'' ll drive you crazy trying to figure if this oil will lubricate that particular engine one minute longer then another oil and vice versa.
i think hes already surpassed that point....
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
gar187er said:
cool story broi pulled it outta thin air.....this a daily driver....engine is produced in the tens of thousands.....you dont need to analyze it like you would an f1 engine....
read above.......normal dino oil from walmart shelves is 100% ok, and as was discussed in another one of your threads, oil will not be the cause of engine failure.....

thats nice....tests mean very little.....all makers have their own ways of doing things.....what an indy lab does has ZERO impact on how they produce an engine.....
Microns of iron and copper from the worn parts are measured in the used oil as well as kinematic viscosity and fuel dilution according to the sequence IVA test as performed by an independent 3rd party testing facility. How do you choose what motor oil to use in your vehicle? Is there some other criteria that you are confident will lead us to a better selection for the price?
 

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My criteria is.....buy whatever name brand oil is the cheapest and easy to get. For me it's Amsoil. I like the additive package in their oils the best, especially for motorcycles.
I have a dealer card so I get it for $5.50 and the warehouse is just down the street from me. I learned about Amsoil from a lot of motorcycle people recommending it. From what I read they were the first to bring synthetic oil to the general public sometime around 1973.
I also use to use Moble 1 in my bikes until they took out the additives benificial to motorcycles......then they put them back in and called it a motorcycle oil and charged more money......American ingenuity.
I have never heard of any engine failing when a brand name oil is used......and changed at the recommended intervals.
Some people like Amsoil, Red Line, Moble1, Quaker State, Penzoil, Valvolene, Shell Rotella, etc. and all are fine products.
 

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GARYD-- I tend to agree with you. Use a name brand oil, syn or not depending on your preference and you'll be just fine. Engine failures due oil problems are a thing of the past as long as the oil/filter is changed per the manufacturers requirements.
I've even seen old V8 engines from the Big 3 drained of all the oil and coolant and run "dry" at car shows to the delight of the participants as they cheer for their favorite manufacturers engine. Some of these engine run 10-15 minutes before they freeze up. This tends to demonstrate that if they will run that long without oil, they certainly will last a long time with any premium oil you decide to use. Very few of us will ever own any car long enough to wear out their engine if it's properly maintained regardless of the brand of oil chosen.
 

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wbassnp007 said:
Microns of iron and copper from the worn parts are measured in the used oil as well as kinematic viscosity and fuel dilution according to the sequence IVA test as performed by an independent 3rd party testing facility. How do you choose what motor oil to use in your vehicle? Is there some other criteria that you are confident will lead us to a better selection for the price?
i dont have to choose...i go grab a jug of pennz plat. and purolator pureone filter and call it a day
 

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Tell you what I did..and do. With my Corvettes...I read on the Corvette Forum...all the tests...hashing and rehashing of certain brand oils for higher performance engines types. Various Articles...claims...anal breakdown..along with new or other tests to dispute the old tests...and of course the scientific sales pitches that for many are surely just set in stone.
Same for the Solstice GXP...and their forums. deciphering the bestus for the Turbo 2.0...and it's nuances.
Then the Harley forums..oil for the air cooled V twin engine.
After all the oil wars..disagreements..opinions...imagination...distractions..retractions...egos....intellectuals..and born again mechanics..I generally settle for what is recommended by GM for these vehicles...which is Mobile 1. Why?..because it works. Maybe not the best..but is good...and alleviates the headache of a continual quest for the best.
However...when purchasing a vehicle with Dino oil..after break-in..I immediately change to a good Syn. I became sold on synthectics years ago with my air cooled Harley. It was obvious..it ran cooler...and smoother. Nuff sayid..!!
Then..all the folks that argue over oil..will do the same with wax for the new beauty. A certain lasting shine..depth..glossy look is all important for many of us..and can be debated 'which is best' in the same vein as oil. Some mix and polish for a hours with their choice to finally get plastic looking mirror reflections that claim to last for months..while others do the all important prep..then slap on a quick and easy 'on and off' sealant that provides a deeper rich wet gloss shine and lasts a long time. Some want the TV wax that you can throw gravel on and light on fire!
I like a certain type oil that 'right before my eyes' has dropped operating temps in an air cooled engine..where I can hear and feel significant smoothness in operation with this same engine..and no imagination! In a car it usually isn't such an obvious experience..but must be still of great advantage over regular dino oil. Only makes sense!
Which is the best?...or the significant best? Seems an on going search to me. Most just finally settle down and pick a brand that is easy to obtain..more reasonably priced..and used in many new engines.
I like Meguiar's NXT 2.0 and real air in my tires. So take this for what it's worth....
 

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nxt sucks...doesnt last long enough :p lol.....had to man....
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
IceMan said:
Tell you what I did..and do. With my Corvettes...I read on the Corvette Forum...all the tests...hashing and rehashing of certain brand oils for higher performance engines types. Various Articles...claims...anal breakdown..along with new or other tests to dispute the old tests...and of course the scientific sales pitches that for many are surely just set in stone.
Same for the Solstice GXP...and their forums. deciphering the bestus for the Turbo 2.0...and it's nuances.
Then the Harley forums..oil for the air cooled V twin engine.
After all the oil wars..disagreements..opinions...imagination...distractions..retractions...egos....intellectuals..and born again mechanics..I generally settle for what is recommended by GM for these vehicles...which is Mobile 1. Why?..because it works. Maybe not the best..but is good...and alleviates the headache of a continual quest for the best.
However...when purchasing a vehicle with Dino oil..after break-in..I immediately change to a good Syn. I became sold on synthectics years ago with my air cooled Harley. It was obvious..it ran cooler...and smoother. Nuff sayid..!!
Then..all the folks that argue over oil..will do the same with wax for the new beauty. A certain lasting shine..depth..glossy look is all important for many of us..and can be debated 'which is best' in the same vein as oil. Some mix and polish for a hours with their choice to finally get plastic looking mirror reflections that claim to last for months..while others do the all important prep..then slap on a quick and easy 'on and off' sealant that provides a deeper rich wet gloss shine and lasts a long time. Some want the TV wax that you can throw gravel on and light on fire!
I like a certain type oil that 'right before my eyes' has dropped operating temps in an air cooled engine..where I can hear and feel significant smoothness in operation with this same engine..and no imagination! In a car it usually isn't such an obvious experience..but must be still of great advantage over regular dino oil. Only makes sense!
Which is the best?...or the significant best? Seems an on going search to me. Most just finally settle down and pick a brand that is easy to obtain..more reasonably priced..and used in many new engines.
I like Meguiar's NXT 2.0 and real air in my tires. So take this for what it's worth....
A reasonable person wants the best for their money. If two different brands have the same cost, why not choose the best? The question is, however, best based on what criteria? I'm glad you mentioned Mobil 1. They also have an extended interval formula Mobil Synthetic. I notice, purely from mfg. advertising and the sequence IVA test data, that Castrol Edge claims 8 times more wear protection than Mobil 1. I know that Mobil 1 seems to be the industry standard in many vehicles and sometimes different motor oils excel in different areas even though cost is comparable. A reasonable person would probably choose an engine oil that provides excellent overall performance in many different areas of protection. The key question is, for a given cost, which criteria do we prefer? For example, Penzoil Ultra is now supposed to be a high detergent formula, but no claim on wear protection. I agree, however, that GM recommendations should prevail for a problem free selection. Ultimately though, I especially agree with your idea about actually feeling, hearing, and observing a difference in the vehicle you are driving! I'm asking if Penzoil Ultra is suited well for vehicles with higher mileage and more carbon and sludge buildup? Is a formula for wear reduction better suited in a newer, cleaner engine subjected to the fine metallic debris during break in? Has anybody noticed any metal debris on a magnetic drain plug?
 
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