[RIT333]

So true JayTee. No car is perfect, and there will be naysayers for every brand. When we make a purchase, we try to do it in an educated fashion, but we hope to not get a lemon.

 

[Colt Hero]

I believe Toyota has fallen far from where they stood in regards to quality. The Toyota of today is not the same company it was in the '90s.

Hmmm ... maybe their "fall" loosely correlates with when they started building them right here in the "good ole U.S.A."?

a lot of members are starting to see recurring issues with their vehicles that shouldn't be happening. Examples - roof leaks through roof rail attachments, shaking side mirrors, distorting/melting exterior trim... etc. How can anyone say these are signs of high quality?

To me, quality starts with the "Major Mechanicals": Engine and Transmission. If you can't do that right, then forget it! Stuff like windshield or glass leaks, loose mirrors, trim issues ... yeah ... that's annoying, but it's not going to leave you stranded somewhere, or cost you thousands of dollars in repairs outside warranty.

I was recently visiting up North and got together with some old college friends. One bought a brand new Silverado (bright red, quad cab, WT, 5.3L) in 2016.. It wasn't at the house when I stopped by to pick him up. Turned out a lifter had collapsed inside the engine, stranding his daughter outside Boston! Only 60,000+ miles on this truck (outside warranty, of course). Before I left to come back home, he got the bad news: $6,000 in repairs ... which I think is gouging, but anyway ... I couldn't believe it, so I did some research. Turns out this problem has been ongoing for years with several GM models (and engines)! Apparently a problem aggravated by the AFM technology (dynamically shutting down cylinders while the engine is running).

And we're all familiar here with the bad piston rings inside the 2.4L Equinoxes that ran from 2010 to 2013 (that GM admitted to, at least).

Serious and costly failures like this - across multiple years and models - are just unacceptable.

That's why I say ... bring on the EVs and "solid state" engines. No more bad piston rings, no more broken lifters, no more failed gaskets buried deep inside the engine that cost thousands to replace (and then worry that the repair work was done properly). GM seems to see it the same way. I think they've had it with all the callbacks and lawsuits...

 

[repairman54]

Current lifter issues are due to bad lifters from supplier on engine production from 9/20 thru 3/21.
AFM lifter issues have been around for a while across not only GM but the other mfgrs. also. You never keep any BMW V8 past the warranty for example.
EV battery failures, fires and other issues get swept under the rug. Only time you hear of any issues if someone blows their car up or does something wacky and it a quick blurb.
EV's are a joke for anyone who actually makes a road trip. They are around town toys for senior citizens to go to the drug store in.
I'm currently 250 miles from home and it's 10 F. I could not get home in an EV in a timely fashion in the comfort that an ICE vehicle provides. A hybrid will easily meet the challenge but never an EV.
GM is done with Mary at the helm. She is betting on the ''woke'' market, but in reality, once you go woke, you'll soon be broke. Asian makers realize this, so they cover all the product bases, so they have something to fall back on, not hoping for govt. bail outs or grant handcuffs.

 

[Silversn95]

I don't know Colt, if a company can't handle the little things I won't trust them with the major things. In my case I had a bad transmission and Toyota didn't want to hear about it, hence I dumped it. My mom's '06 burns litres of oil (not just one) between oil changes, has a shuddering torque converter on lock-up, multiple fluid leaks and now holes through the floor. Yes, it is approaching 16 yrs old but all the issues except for the rust, she has been experiencing for upwards of 10+ yrs. My sister's Sienna has also experienced excessive rust issues, non functioning power sliding doors and liftgate and now AC due to rotted AC lines.
Sorry, Toyota has not earned the right to anymore of my hard earned money. I know no automaker is perfect but 3 for 3 keeps this particular one off my list going forward.

 

[arcee]

That's why I say ... bring on the EVs and "solid state" engines. No more bad piston rings, no more broken lifters, no more failed gaskets buried deep inside the engine that cost thousands to replace (and then worry that the repair work was done properly). GM seems to see it the same way. I think they've had it with all the callbacks and lawsuits...

EVs will have a whole different set of issues. For example, the Ford Mustang Mach-E still has a radiator and a liquid cooled system that needs servicing religiously every 30K miles. That can easily leak.

EV batteries, currently, cannot be easily repaired if a few cells go bad. The whole thing needs to be replaced.

If an electric motor goes bad, the whole thing needs to get swapped out....same with the transmission. It will be a while before people start reliably "rebuilding" EV electric motors and transmissions. Tesla uses a conventional spin-on oil filter for their transmission and differential oil filtering. They claim it is good for the life of the vehicle yet there is a part number for the filter and they are sold online. Owners are changing them every 2 years. Anything with a liquid running through it can eventually start leaking.

EVs are certainly more module/component oriented, but still need to be regularly serviced just like any other vehicle.

 

[oldtux]

See link below for all new EV Equinox and Blazer.

GM Announces Chevy Blazer EV at CES 2022

Today, Chevrolet announced that electrified versions of the Blazer & Equinox will arrive in 2023! https://media.chevrolet.com/media/us/en/chevrolet/home.detail.html/content/Pages/news/us/en/2022/jan/ces/0105-2024-equinox.html CHEVROLET PREVIEWS EQUINOX EV Equinox EV builds on Chevy’s commitment...

www.chevyblazer.org

I've owned a couple of RAV4's. Compared to the Equinox? Noisier, used more gas, cheesier interior.

The future is BEV's, not hybrids and certainly not ICE's. No more fossil fueled vehicles will likely be developed.
Too bad; for me a BEV is the answer to a question I've never asked. My 2021 1,5T LT AWD Equinox is ICE perfection - Reliable, quiet, powerful enough for where and how I drive; 30mpg+ at all times; 450+miles range on a full tank that fills in 5 minutes for $50.00. On and on. A couple of service visits each year. It's a complex machine that gives very little trouble and a lot of fun to drive. But climate change policies mean switching to batteries in, what, less than 10 years?

So, the Equinox EV looks great, IMO; I hope it has similar room inside. Equipped like my present ride, maybe a little more than $30K - that's about the same. Most nights it will sit in my garage, topping off the battery. Recharging out in the boonies? Could be a problem.

 

[Colt Hero]

The future is BEV's, not hybrids and certainly not ICE's. No more fossil fueled vehicles will likely be developed.

"No more ICE vehicles" is what GM is saying right now, but if they even get to that point, I wouldn't be surprised if they just ended up bringing back ICE vehicles a short time later anyway, but with sky-high MSRPs, and a boatload of buyers willing to pay anything to not drive an EV!

This could all just be a big setup ...

 

[Silversn95]

It really would be foolish to completely eliminate ICE across the industry. If it does eventually happen it will be decades, not years. I see advantages and disadvantages to BEVs but I'm open minded and believe one might be in my future once the options and infrastructure improve. At the same time I have watched documentaries on cobalt and lithium mining. How the tree huggers think that is any better than pulling oil out of the ground escapes me.

 

[OHHEY]

It really would be foolish to completely eliminate ICE across the industry. If it does eventually happen it will be decades, not years. I see advantages and disadvantages to BEVs but I'm open minded and believe one might be in my future once the options and infrastructure improve. At the same time I have watched documentaries on cobalt and lithium mining. How the tree huggers think that is any better than pulling oil out of the ground escapes me.

It's not just tree huggers that are buying EVs, in fact I don't even think it's half the buyers. Some folks are just tired of getting ripped off every time they take their car in for service and other motivators. My wife had me order a Tesla because of the technology, it's like a smartphone on wheels for geeky people. EVs are also becoming fashion. If your friends and neighbors get one you will get one. The same thing happened with the SUV craze, most folks didn't need one they got one because their friends did and were willing to pay more than they ever thought a vehicle would cost to keep up with the Jones'. The ability to say "Oh, did gas prices go up?,.. I didn't notice" is also nice.

 

[2022RSGUY]

Here is the issue I have......I have no problems with EV's...However the basic infrastructure of a persons home may not even meet the requirements for say a 2 car EV family. Most breaker panels only have so many slots to put in these 40AMP service breakers....sure you can get a whole new breaker box...but how many people are going to do that. Where I live, with the cost of housing out of control here in Ontario, a 1800 square foot detached home is going for a million dollars everywhere in the Greater Toronto area.....now with that, you have multiple families or generations of people living there just to survive the crazy prices/rent, Every single driveway on my street has minimum 3 to 4 cars in it.

Lets say they all get EV's

I shudder to think of what your hydro bill would be monthly, if your electrical service could even handle it...

It might work for a couple, or a single person right now with ONE EV car, but trying having an entire family with EV's in the driveway. Not going to happen, you would have extension cords running all over the place.


Jason

 

[Therunabout]

It's not just tree huggers that are buying EVs, in fact I don't even think it's half the buyers. Some folks are just tired of getting ripped off every time they take their car in for service and other motivators. My wife had me order a Tesla because of the technology, it's like a smartphone on wheels for geeky people. EVs are also becoming fashion. If your friends and neighbors get one you will get one. The same thing happened with the SUV craze, most folks didn't need one they got one because their friends did and were willing to pay more than they ever thought a vehicle would cost to keep up with the Jones'. The ability to say "Oh, did gas prices go up?,.. I didn't notice" is also nice.

I bought a new 21 Bolt because I needed a car and was actually the cheapest new car I could find. Paid only $20k for it. I really enjoyed it. Cost only $0.013 a mile for charging. Certainly saved me quite a bit of money over filling my previous car with gas at $0.09 a mile. Unfortunately there is a minor safety recall on all Bolts. GM is making me whole by swapping it to a 22 Terrain SLT. I put almost 16,000 miles on it in 10 months.

While I like the looks and size of the new equinox EV, I don’t trust GM/LG EVs.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[JayTee2014]

Here is the issue I have......I have no problems with EV's...However the basic infrastructure of a persons home may not even meet the requirements for say a 2 car EV family. Most breaker panels only have so many slots to put in these 40AMP service breakers....sure you can get a whole new breaker box...but how many people are going to do that. Where I live, with the cost of housing out of control here in Ontario, a 1800 square foot detached home is going for a million dollars everywhere in the Greater Toronto area.....now with that, you have multiple families or generations of people living there just to survive the crazy prices/rent, Every single driveway on my street has minimum 3 to 4 cars in it.

Lets say they all get EV's

I shudder to think of what your hydro bill would be monthly, if your electrical service could even handle it...

It might work for a couple, or a single person right now with ONE EV car, but trying having an entire family with EV's in the driveway. Not going to happen, you would have extension cords running all over the place.


Jason

And as Paul Harvey used to say. . . "This is the rest of the story ! ".
Good point and illustrates how going full out EV is a bit premature and many wrinkles to iron out.
GM quit on the Volt and not is having problems with the Bolt and buying some back because of electrical safety issues.
What will this picture look like when there are 10 or 20 more GM EV models out there with issues?

I am hoping it doesn't lead to another bankruptcy because of all the recalls.

 

[NXR71]

I shudder to think of what your hydro bill would be monthly, if your electrical service could even handle it...

FWIW, I had to have my home upgraded from 100 amp service to 200 amp service. About four years ago it cost just under $6,000 US, including replacing the meter box, replacing the breaker box with a larger one and all new breakers, the city permits and inspection, and required trenching about 100 feet to replace the underground wiring from the house to the transformer in the back yard.

If we had overhead wiring the power company would have covered that cost.

If the next owner has an EV they're all set.

 

[Silversn95]

FWIW, I had to have my home upgraded from 100 amp service to 200 amp service. About four years ago it cost just under $6,000 US, including replacing the meter box, replacing the breaker box with a larger one and all new breakers, the city permits and inspection, and required trenching about 100 feet to replace the underground wiring from the house to the transformer in the back yard.

If we had overhead wiring the power company would have covered that cost.

If the next owner has an EV they're all set.

That is a bit eye widening! I'm lucky in that my home is already at 200 amp service and I have a 240V outlet in the garage that has been going unused for a long time.
The other part that concerns me greatly is the cost of electricity. It is already too high where I live due to a previous governments push for "green" energy. I can see future governments using the excuse of needing to upgrade the infrastructure for EVs to give them the green light to increase rates significantly down the road. This will make any potential savings from going EV shrink or even disappear. Hell, I did rough calculations on my current fuel use and prices for gas and electricity today and the savings were not huge. Something in the order of $60 per month. I saw a much bigger savings from simply downsizing from an '06 Explorer to the Nox ( easily $150/month).

 

[Colt Hero]

The other part that concerns me greatly is the cost of electricity. It is already too high where I live due to a previous governments push for "green" energy. I can see future governments using the excuse of needing to upgrade the infrastructure for EVs to give them the green light to increase rates significantly down the road. This will make any potential savings from going EV shrink or even disappear.

Yup! We're just gonna end up being slaves to the Electric Companies instead of the Oil Companies. Heck, maybe the Oil Companies will buy the Electric Companies!

There's also Solar, but the cost of that will skyrocket, too.

I don't think there'll be any (financial) escape.

But if all we get out of it is simplification of the automobile, ease of maintenance, and a lot less mystery involving repairs, then I think it'll still be a big win in the end.

 

[JayTee2014]

I would like to believe that. But I doubt car companies will really reduce "necessary" service on vehicles just because they are EV.

They simply do not have the track record that shows that at all. The difference will be that if you do not accept "advised" service maintenance and something . . any problem that occurs . . . then they will point out that you did not follow the "Recommended Service " at some past point in time..

Car Maker Service Centers already do that. They can deny an engine repair, transmission repair, electrical failure, etc even if you have receipts as an owner for maintenance that has been done.
Then it's up to you to fight them in court to prove that the manner and proper maintenance and repairs were done correctly by you or some outside independent service center.

 

[NXR71]

But if all we get out of it is simplification of the automobile, ease of maintenance, and a lot less mystery involving repairs, then I think it'll still be a big win in the end.

It's going to be the opposite, unfortunately. Proprietary tools to read the special codes as are needed for my Hyundai Sonata Hybrid, specially-trained techs at dealers, neighborhood garages that cannot work on the drivetrain, special vendor-specific test equipment, etc.

EV's still need transmissions and all of the rest of the same running gear. The engines will become motors but the electronic controls will add the complexity removed by lessening the moving parts. The vehicles will become more susceptible to electronic and radio interference resulting in more unexplainable and unduplicatable "glitches".

And we'll still have power failures in major storms but no 5 gallon gas cans to get us through.

 

[OHHEY]

It's going to be the opposite, unfortunately. Proprietary tools to read the special codes as are needed for my Hyundai Sonata Hybrid, specially-trained techs at dealers, neighborhood garages that cannot work on the drivetrain, special vendor-specific test equipment, etc.

EV's still need transmissions and all of the rest of the same running gear. The engines will become motors but the electronic controls will add the complexity removed by lessening the moving parts. The vehicles will become more susceptible to electronic and radio interference resulting in more unexplainable and unduplicatable "glitches".

And we'll still have power failures in major storms but no 5 gallon gas cans to get us through.

When we had our famous power outage here in Texas there was no power at gas stations and stores so I didn't have a use for my car. I was lucky enough to have a natural gas line to my home and that was still working so I was able to run the fireplace and cooktop burners to keep from freezing. My central heat is gas also but without power it didn't work. What I really needed was a home battery or a vehicle like the Ford F-150 lighting that could run my house just to run the HVAC system. I really hope that doesn't happen again.

 

[NXR71]

The other part that concerns me greatly is the cost of electricity. It is already too high where I live due to a previous governments push for "green" energy. I can see future governments using the excuse of needing to upgrade the infrastructure for EVs to give them the green light to increase rates significantly down the road. This will make any potential savings from going EV shrink or even disappear.

What does "too high" mean to you?

We pay about 12 cents per kilowatt hour in northern Ohio. That's the entire monthly bill divided by the number of KWH used.

We're renting a place in Florida and the electricity is 14 cents per KWH. At a different place in Florida last year it was a measly 8 cents per KWH.

That $60 a month savings is also going to evaporate just because it's an EV. My hybrid cost me over $200 a year more for full insurance because the insurance company said the more technology in these things the more they cost to repair after an accident.

As people drive less the cost-per-mile goes way up.

 

[Silversn95]

Here are the rates in Ontario. I would be happy with a 12 cent flat rate as long as it would stay a 12 cent flat rate. Unfortunately I feel switching everything to electric will ramp everything up substantially. Even at current rates I have seen electricity bills top $200/month in the heat of the summer. Hate to see what happens when price of electricity climbs over $0.30/kwh and above. And then to add cost of charging an EV on top of it....maybe a fuel efficient ICE vehicle isn't so bad!