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4 Posts
2012 GMC Terrain in WI
Noticed reduced engine performance, engine noise, burning oil smell, and check engine light on 2 days prior to finding a pool of oil under my car in my garage. Exact date of occurrence 01/08/2018. This is response describes what I went through getting my car diagnosed at a GMC dealership in Greenfield, WI and what resulted during my contact with GM regarding this issue. I will continue to update so others are aware of the problems they may encounter and how they can handle this if this happens to them. I will continue to fight GM to get this is resolved (my case is still open) so we can bring this issue to light ans hold GM accountable. I hope this helps! (FYI this is a very long post but I like to be thorough).
1st day: The GMC dealership refused to give me notice (even though I requested they call me) when my vehicle would be placed on the lift so I can be present in-person during their evaluation in order to 1: fully understand the issue visually and ask questions in the moment so I would not have unanswered questions later 2: Learn how to prevent this problem from occurring 3: make sure I would not be ripped-offed by a misdiagnoses or someone creating a false diagnoses. Being young (22) and being a woman I did not want someone giving me the runaround just to get to me to pay for costly repairs no-questions-asked. So I was contacted that afternoon by a Service Consultant who denied being notified of my request for a callback but instead informed me my car was going to need $3200 in repairs for a Frozen PCV and Rear Main Seal Blow-out replacement and I would be contacted the next day to see if my warranty covered it.
2nd day: I was contacted again by the Service consultant letting me know my warranty would not cover. I questioned why but was told "Your PCV froze, they don't cover that, if you want we can contact GM to get them to lower the cost of repairs". At this point I demanded a full explanation of what the PCV and Rear Main Seal are because (I am not a mechanic nor am I familiar with these parts) I would not pay until I knew how they affect my vehicle. But I was simply given the same response as before " PCV froze over trapping moisture in your engine causing pressure which blew-out the seal". I was told they would contact GM for the "special financing" to cover repairs and was brushed off yet again to be contacted the next day. I spent the rest of that afternoon researching on my own since I knew I would get nowhere with this guy (and happened upon this video
and GM Service Bulletin 14882 in the process https://gm.oemdtc.com/Recall/SB-10057977-8108.pdf along with this that gives explanations on the PCV https://repairpal.com/estimator/pcv-valve-replacement-cost and the Rear Main Seal https://repairpal.com/estimator/rear-main-seal-replacement-cost ).
3rd day: I called the GMC dealership shuttle to speak to the Service Consultant in person. I was transferred over by the operator directly to the same consultant, and to my shock and surprise he denied me shuttle service! I once again questioned the function of these parts and repair costs for the 3rd time (after having knowledge of my own this time, I wanted to see if his explanation changed) and if I could speak to the mechanic in person because it sounded like he himself did not understand what was happening with my vehicle. After I said this he laughed and said "There is no point in coming, there is nothing I can tell you in person that would be different than what I am telling you over the phone". Being so frustrated with this BS response I hung up and found another ride there to speak to a manager in person.
Same day(afternoon): After a long discussion with the manager, the last question I asked him was why his service department being full aware that this is a common issue with the model year of my vehicle did not mention the GM Special Coverage Service Bulletin 14882 or why preventative solutions were not recommended for the PCV (which are easy fixes) before it caused this dangerous outcome? Not surprised, I was told "We are not responsible for recommendations on these issues, that is for the customer to decide, we check the VIN of vehicles for recalls during repairs and that's it, if your VIN does not show we don't even have to contact you, that's GM's job". WOW! So lastly as a last ditch effort to get this clarified and calm my own nerves, I request that this manager ensure that a thorough explanation of the process performed by the mechanic to diagnose my car, be printed on the diagnoses report as evidence/service record for myself, GM, my extended warranty, and Carfax. The manager looked at me dumbfounded and said he did not understand what I was requesting. I explained again, and still, he did not seem to understand that all I wanted was for the step-by-step testing completed by the mechanic be documented on paper so I, or another mechanic would be able to see what steps were taken by them to ensure that this was indeed the correct diagnosis. After much back and forth about this they finally got something added. Though it was not even close to what I expected, here is exactly what was listed WORD-FOR-WORD on my diagnoses report:
CUSTOMER STATED ALL THE OIL HAS LEAKED OUT ADVISE AND CHECK
ENGINE LIGHT IS ON ADVISE AND CHECK
VEHICLE CAME IN WITHOUT ENGINE OIL, WE ADDED 3 QUARTS OF ENGINE OIL AT OUR EXPENSE, THEN WE PUT THE VEHICLE ON A HOIST - WE VISUALLY INSPECTED AND FOUND THE OIL WAS LEAKING AT THE REAR MAIN OIL SEAL, THE OIL WAS LEAKING SO FAST WE COULDN'T EVEN CLEAN THE AREA - POSSIBLE CAUSES OF A MAJOR OIL LEAK LIKE THIS IS A FROZEN PCV SYSTEM WITCH WILL INCREASE OIL PRESSURE CAUSING THE REAR MAIN OIL SEAL TO LEAK
- WE WOULD HAVE TO REMOVE THE INTAKE MANIFOLD TO CLEAN OUT THE PCV SYSTEM AND REPLACE THE REAR MAIN SEAL
VEHICLE WOULD NEED TO HAVE REAR MAIN SEAL REPLACED, INTAKE WOULD HAVE TO BE REMOVED AND PCV SYSTEM CLEANED AS WELL, INFORMED CUSTOMER VEHICLE SHOULD NOT BE DRIVEN
THIS ALSO COULD BE HAPPENING FROM TAKING VERY SHORT TRIPPING AND LACK OF MAINTENANCE
So all in all this is the crap of an excuse I was left with to believe, solely after a VISUAL INSPECTION of the Rear Main Seal (which this part is impossible to view without removal of transmission etc.) and loss of oil they knew it was a seal blowout. "Possible" cause being a frozen PCV which says to me that they never saw ice nor water within the system they just assume. The engine light was never addressed nor was my mention of the Engine Oil Light not alerting me even mentioned. From my encounter with these disrespectful and sketchy people at this dealership I denied all repairs to take place and had my vehicle towed (at my expense) back to my home. I was not convinced nor shown even evidence at all to lead me to believe that this failure actually occurred nor that they properly diagnosed/tested this issue in a manner that I would have approved. Nor did this seem as an acceptable way to test the issue based on the ways that others have done it from what I read online. I left angry, disappointed, lost, and cheated out of my time and money. I have been car-less for a week now due to this disaster.
Since the point I got my vehicle home I have checked the oil levels every day for the past 3 days and it has remained FULL. I have not seen any oil pools or even small drips of oil since then. I have not attempted to turn on my vehicle in order not to cause any other complications but have removed my battery since I will not be driving it for the time being. In regards to GM I have a case open but have not yet gotten a call back. I will update again in a week.
Noticed reduced engine performance, engine noise, burning oil smell, and check engine light on 2 days prior to finding a pool of oil under my car in my garage. Exact date of occurrence 01/08/2018. This is response describes what I went through getting my car diagnosed at a GMC dealership in Greenfield, WI and what resulted during my contact with GM regarding this issue. I will continue to update so others are aware of the problems they may encounter and how they can handle this if this happens to them. I will continue to fight GM to get this is resolved (my case is still open) so we can bring this issue to light ans hold GM accountable. I hope this helps! (FYI this is a very long post but I like to be thorough).
1st day: The GMC dealership refused to give me notice (even though I requested they call me) when my vehicle would be placed on the lift so I can be present in-person during their evaluation in order to 1: fully understand the issue visually and ask questions in the moment so I would not have unanswered questions later 2: Learn how to prevent this problem from occurring 3: make sure I would not be ripped-offed by a misdiagnoses or someone creating a false diagnoses. Being young (22) and being a woman I did not want someone giving me the runaround just to get to me to pay for costly repairs no-questions-asked. So I was contacted that afternoon by a Service Consultant who denied being notified of my request for a callback but instead informed me my car was going to need $3200 in repairs for a Frozen PCV and Rear Main Seal Blow-out replacement and I would be contacted the next day to see if my warranty covered it.
2nd day: I was contacted again by the Service consultant letting me know my warranty would not cover. I questioned why but was told "Your PCV froze, they don't cover that, if you want we can contact GM to get them to lower the cost of repairs". At this point I demanded a full explanation of what the PCV and Rear Main Seal are because (I am not a mechanic nor am I familiar with these parts) I would not pay until I knew how they affect my vehicle. But I was simply given the same response as before " PCV froze over trapping moisture in your engine causing pressure which blew-out the seal". I was told they would contact GM for the "special financing" to cover repairs and was brushed off yet again to be contacted the next day. I spent the rest of that afternoon researching on my own since I knew I would get nowhere with this guy (and happened upon this video
3rd day: I called the GMC dealership shuttle to speak to the Service Consultant in person. I was transferred over by the operator directly to the same consultant, and to my shock and surprise he denied me shuttle service! I once again questioned the function of these parts and repair costs for the 3rd time (after having knowledge of my own this time, I wanted to see if his explanation changed) and if I could speak to the mechanic in person because it sounded like he himself did not understand what was happening with my vehicle. After I said this he laughed and said "There is no point in coming, there is nothing I can tell you in person that would be different than what I am telling you over the phone". Being so frustrated with this BS response I hung up and found another ride there to speak to a manager in person.
Same day(afternoon): After a long discussion with the manager, the last question I asked him was why his service department being full aware that this is a common issue with the model year of my vehicle did not mention the GM Special Coverage Service Bulletin 14882 or why preventative solutions were not recommended for the PCV (which are easy fixes) before it caused this dangerous outcome? Not surprised, I was told "We are not responsible for recommendations on these issues, that is for the customer to decide, we check the VIN of vehicles for recalls during repairs and that's it, if your VIN does not show we don't even have to contact you, that's GM's job". WOW! So lastly as a last ditch effort to get this clarified and calm my own nerves, I request that this manager ensure that a thorough explanation of the process performed by the mechanic to diagnose my car, be printed on the diagnoses report as evidence/service record for myself, GM, my extended warranty, and Carfax. The manager looked at me dumbfounded and said he did not understand what I was requesting. I explained again, and still, he did not seem to understand that all I wanted was for the step-by-step testing completed by the mechanic be documented on paper so I, or another mechanic would be able to see what steps were taken by them to ensure that this was indeed the correct diagnosis. After much back and forth about this they finally got something added. Though it was not even close to what I expected, here is exactly what was listed WORD-FOR-WORD on my diagnoses report:
CUSTOMER STATED ALL THE OIL HAS LEAKED OUT ADVISE AND CHECK
ENGINE LIGHT IS ON ADVISE AND CHECK
VEHICLE CAME IN WITHOUT ENGINE OIL, WE ADDED 3 QUARTS OF ENGINE OIL AT OUR EXPENSE, THEN WE PUT THE VEHICLE ON A HOIST - WE VISUALLY INSPECTED AND FOUND THE OIL WAS LEAKING AT THE REAR MAIN OIL SEAL, THE OIL WAS LEAKING SO FAST WE COULDN'T EVEN CLEAN THE AREA - POSSIBLE CAUSES OF A MAJOR OIL LEAK LIKE THIS IS A FROZEN PCV SYSTEM WITCH WILL INCREASE OIL PRESSURE CAUSING THE REAR MAIN OIL SEAL TO LEAK
- WE WOULD HAVE TO REMOVE THE INTAKE MANIFOLD TO CLEAN OUT THE PCV SYSTEM AND REPLACE THE REAR MAIN SEAL
VEHICLE WOULD NEED TO HAVE REAR MAIN SEAL REPLACED, INTAKE WOULD HAVE TO BE REMOVED AND PCV SYSTEM CLEANED AS WELL, INFORMED CUSTOMER VEHICLE SHOULD NOT BE DRIVEN
THIS ALSO COULD BE HAPPENING FROM TAKING VERY SHORT TRIPPING AND LACK OF MAINTENANCE
So all in all this is the crap of an excuse I was left with to believe, solely after a VISUAL INSPECTION of the Rear Main Seal (which this part is impossible to view without removal of transmission etc.) and loss of oil they knew it was a seal blowout. "Possible" cause being a frozen PCV which says to me that they never saw ice nor water within the system they just assume. The engine light was never addressed nor was my mention of the Engine Oil Light not alerting me even mentioned. From my encounter with these disrespectful and sketchy people at this dealership I denied all repairs to take place and had my vehicle towed (at my expense) back to my home. I was not convinced nor shown even evidence at all to lead me to believe that this failure actually occurred nor that they properly diagnosed/tested this issue in a manner that I would have approved. Nor did this seem as an acceptable way to test the issue based on the ways that others have done it from what I read online. I left angry, disappointed, lost, and cheated out of my time and money. I have been car-less for a week now due to this disaster.
Since the point I got my vehicle home I have checked the oil levels every day for the past 3 days and it has remained FULL. I have not seen any oil pools or even small drips of oil since then. I have not attempted to turn on my vehicle in order not to cause any other complications but have removed my battery since I will not be driving it for the time being. In regards to GM I have a case open but have not yet gotten a call back. I will update again in a week.
