[Guest]

Ok, I wrote this in another post, but here I go again starting another poll on an important subject that should be discussed.
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Flex Fuel...what a joke!

Wish GM would have saved the money on this feature and instead gave us something else like Auto Up/Down driver window, homelink button..even a change compartment for chr$st sakes.

Why would GM be promoting an alternative fuel that:
1. cost way more per liter/gallon
2. Gets about 70% the driving range as gas (and don't forget it also cost more per liter/gallon in the first place).
3. Typically comes from a food source.....duh, when you have millions of starving and thirsty people in this world how dare you consume extra land resources, fresh water and food so you can sleep better at night knowing you pumped a little less pollution out your tail pipe...shame on you & shame on GM for promoting this! And don't forget...it still takes tonnes of petroleum products anyway to fertilize, harvest and transport crops to manufacture into ethanal anyways!

Oh, and also shame on our governments for falsely creating this environmentalism & global warming hype that is making organizations like GM jump on the bandwagon and provide a flex fuel addition to be politically correct...further enabling the public to perpetuate this madness.

Enviro-nuts just don't get it!

 

[gar187er]

ummma food source...a renewable food source......not like once the corn is gone, its gone forever......

also fresh water?!?! you know most farmers use well, and or rain water resevoirs....

and yes the tractors and trucks polute, but their polution would save millions of gallons of pollution if more people could use e85....

someone needs to do some thinking about his rant....

 

[Z_Ghost]

At least with corn you do not have to worry about this.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deepwater_Horizon_oil_spill

If Brazil can do it we should be able to find some crop that we can grow.

Brazil is considered to have the world's first sustainable biofuels economy and the biofuel industry leader,[3][4][5][6] a policy model for other countries; and its sugarcane ethanol "the most successful alternative fuel to date

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethanol_fuel_in_Brazil

 

[gearhead]

Does a 2010 Nox or Terrain run on E85 "out of the factory"?
I thought there'd be a badge somewhere on the exterior for all E85 vehicles?
Other than that, I think the most our 2010 Terrain can handle is 10% ethanol...I think.

 

[bballr4567]

Like I said in the other thread, you need to do some research on E85 and look at the actual benefits of it rather than just the negatives. Think of all the pollution put out by how much you have to just transport all that oil before you even get gas out of it. No energy is clean energy right now.

Shoot, I even think there is a company that is using land fill slurry to make E85 now.

 

[GARYD]

No vehicle on the road now can run on E85 unless it was designed for it to begin with. So E85 isn't going to do much good for a long time, but I agree something has to be done do reduce our dependence on foreign oil.
I say we scrap all the cars on the road now and only sell scooters or motorcycles, and for those in cold climates...the "Smart For 2" car. ;D

 

[RSchleder]

mmarges--obviously, you have no idea about farming in the US of A. There are literally millions of acres of farm land that is not farmed each year as the Government pays farmers to keep these acres idle in order to control the supply/demand ratio. If the demand for these crops goes up because of ethanol usage, these acres get farmed, farm subsidies ( tax dollars spent for non-production) go down and we don't send as much money overseas. I suggest in the future you need to get educated a bit on crop production before you SHAME the farming industry. Come to Iowa sometime, spend a day on an actual farm, and maybe you'll learn enough to make a halfway intelligent comment about something you're totally ignorant about.
Now, lets see, automatic roll up windows or ----a renewable fuel to decrease our dependence on foreign Governments and less tax dollars for farm non-production? Also a partial solution that helps to stop the overseas fuel expenditures that are sapping our national wealth. Gee, what a tough decision! :

 

[wbassnp007]

At least with corn you do not have to worry about this.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deepwater_Horizon_oil_spill

If Brazil can do it we should be able to find some crop that we can grow.

Brazil is considered to have the world's first sustainable biofuels economy and the biofuel industry leader,[3][4][5][6] a policy model for other countries; and its sugarcane ethanol "the most successful alternative fuel to date

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethanol_fuel_in_Brazil

Brazil makes a nice cup of coffee. Leave the farmers alone and let them grow, grow, grow. Provide irrigation for their crops with the products of Hydrogen use. Hydrogen is the only long term solution. Plenty of product, no pollution. But at what cost? We need more technology! On the other hand, natural gas would be my second choice. With natural gas, we still have the problem of pollution, but not as bad as petroleum. The technology is there, but we have not implemented it. It seems that our governments are investing in electric alternatives and combination electric/gasoline engines.
The idea behind the corn thing is not having to pay farmers not to grow crops, and use the surplus for ethanol production. Win win situation. Instead of paying farmers not to grow crops, we could export the surplus solving world hunger of children and increasing farmer profit.

Ethanol is a temporary fix. A permanent solution would be Hydrogen power. No need for corn, petroleum, electricity, or natural gas. We could use the products of Hydrogen use to water plants, crops, and for drinking. The supply of Hydrogen seems unlimited and thus is not a finite resource such as oil and natural gas. With an unlimited supply, the supply/demand ratio would also be infinite and the cost would be very, very cheap. Like free! The only caveat is technology to tool automobiles and all engines to run Hydrogen. Reduce dependence on foreign oil. Use Hydrogen!

 

[IceMan]

It comes down to just what research you want to buy into. Whether you really want to consider all the facts or not. Plus common sense plays a roll..if you allow it. Ethanol production is controversial..along with many other 'alternatives' as well. Feeding the machine is big business therefore facts are always ripe to be skewed or misconstrued by either side. Here's an article supporting one side. I'm sure there are many others supporting the opposition. It should also be realised that greed and speculation of big $$ can often control information and breed a sense of urgency and acceptance...and then leave us with unexpected aftereffects possibly leading to future dismay. Isn't it wise to always look closely to determine exactly what is in our best interest...and demand reasonable choice...before any 'alternatives' are implemented or set in stone..?

http://healthandenergy.com/ethanol.htm

 

[NoobNox]

Does a 2010 Nox or Terrain run on E85 "out of the factory"?
I thought there'd be a badge somewhere on the exterior for all E85 vehicles?
Other than that, I think the most our 2010 Terrain can handle is 10% ethanol...I think.

None of the 2010's are flex fuel, and only the V6 in the 2011's. Any gas engine can run with up to 10% ethanol mix (or a little more) but it wouldn't be wise to run straight E85 with a fuel system not modified for it..

 

[gearhead]

It comes down to just what research you want to buy into. Whether you really want to consider all the facts or not. Plus common sense plays a roll..if you allow it. Ethanol production is controversial..along with many other 'alternatives' as well. Feeding the machine is big business therefore facts are always ripe to be skewed or misconstrued by either side. Here's an article supporting one side. I'm sure there are many others supporting the opposition. It should also be realised that greed and speculation of big $$ can often control information and breed a sense of urgency and acceptance...and then leave us with unexpected aftereffects possibly leading to future dismay. [/color]Isn't it wise to always look closely to determine exactly what is in our best interest...and demand reasonable choice...before any 'alternatives' are implemented or set in stone..?

http://healthandenergy.com/ethanol.htm

Very good point (and reminder), thanks IceMan.
Corporations could give a rat's you-know-what when it comes down to Consumer vs. Bottom Line, Bottom Line will always win.
After all, it is a business.

 

[gearhead]

None of the 2010's are flex fuel, and only the V6 in the 2011's. Any gas engine can run with up to 10% ethanol mix (or a little more) but it wouldn't be wise to run straight E85 with a fuel system not modified for it..

Thanks for answering our question and adding more info, NoobNox.

 

[Guest]

If the demand for these crops goes up because of ethanol usage, these acres get farmed, farm subsidies ( tax dollars spent for non-production) go down and we don't send as much money overseas. I suggest in the future you need to get educated a bit on crop production before you SHAME the farming industry.

RScheder - Where did you read that I said SHAME on the farming industry? Wrong, I said shame on those that use E85 and shame on GM for pomoting it's use. As for Farmers, just keep doing what you do, providing FOOD for humans to eat and live...a job well done and appreciated. But please refrain from providing a food source only to be converted into Ethanal to fuel our cars.

Also, as the demand for Ethanol goes up - the price for corn goes up - the price of all foods containing corn then goes up - the price of meat (animal feeds on corn) goes up - the cost of all other crops goes up since they're less plentiful because all the farmers switching over to corn since that 's where the money is.

Hey, I'm all for E85 Ethanol provided the government regulates that it's only made from left over by-product crop waste and/or other left over garbage. Not directly from a food source and not from land dedicated solely for crop-to-Ethanol products.

RSchleder, your quote from your post "There are literally millions of acres of farm land that is not farmed each year as the Government pays farmers to keep these acres idle in order to control the supply/demand ratio" Wait a minute, this is true? Your goverment really does this...wow, in a world with millions or starving people and you purposely keep land idle and pay off your farmers to control the food supply... and this is a so called CHRISTIAN nation?. I also thought that in the US the free market was wide open and the laws or supply/demand found their own balance. Doesn't sound like capitalism to me, more like "select capiltalism" and the rest the goverment will take care of. Can't figure out why you guys don't get as outraged at your goverment for controlling the food supply as other things like healthcare reform. puzzling!

 

[bballr4567]

What has ALSO gone up with price of corn? Oh yea, oil! What do farmers use to operate their machinery? Oil products. What is used to transport anything in this country? Oil! If we use a renewable source, it will go down.

In 2001 when I worked in the fields, they were paying .70 a gallon for dyed diesel. Now, they are paying upwards of $3.00 a gallon. That is a HUGE price increase.

Corn byproducts are just a stopgap for E85 right now. Remember, this "food stock" rumor is just that. Do some research and see what E85 is made out of.

 

[gearhead]

Let's step back for a moment and look at some simiar situations, e.g. diesel and propane.
Diesel and propane were always cheaper than gasoline when they were not mainstream.

The second (ok, minute LOL) they became even remotely popular, the price spiked to almost equal that of gas.
Rest assured, the same thing would happen with ethanol.
Even though there maybe be millions of acres of available land in Iowa, Indiana and elsewhere that could be used for ethanol, once something goes mainstream, the Gov't will find a way to jack the price up, sure as day, IMO.

 

[Guest]

It comes down to just what research you want to buy into. Whether you really want to consider all the facts or not. Plus common sense plays a roll..if you allow it. Ethanol production is controversial..along with many other 'alternatives' as well. Feeding the machine is big business therefore facts are always ripe to be skewed or misconstrued by either side. Here's an article supporting one side. I'm sure there are many others supporting the opposition. It should also be realised that greed and speculation of big $$ can often control information and breed a sense of urgency and acceptance...and then leave us with unexpected aftereffects possibly leading to future dismay. Isn't it wise to always look closely to determine exactly what is in our best interest...and demand reasonable choice...before any 'alternatives' are implemented or set in stone..?

http://healthandenergy.com/ethanol.htm

IceMan, an excellent article!

I think we need to investigate getting our energy from something that is very plentiful and has a huge energy density. I might suggest Hydrogen (but not used in a fuel cell). Hydrogen used in an internatal combustion engine. Hydrogen is the most plentiful fuel in the universe...we can get it from water...extremely plentiful, covers 80% of the earth. We simply separate it using electrolisis from electricity made from nuclear power. Uranium is plentiful and has a massive power density a million times greater than petroleum and we can control the pollution by product

 

[wbassnp007]

IceMan, an excellent article!

I think we need to investigate getting our energy from something that is very plentiful and has a huge energy density. I might suggest Hydrogen (but not used in a fuel cell). Hydrogen used in an internatal combustion engine. Hydrogen is the most plentiful fuel in the universe...we can get it from water...extremely plentiful, covers 80% of the earth. We simply separate it using electrolisis from electricity made from nuclear power. Uranium is plentiful and has a massive power density a million times greater than petroleum and we can control the pollution by product

Smartest idea yet!

 

[IceMan]

What has ALSO gone up with price of corn? Oh yea, oil! What do farmers use to operate their machinery? Oil products. What is used to transport anything in this country? Oil! If we use a renewable source, it will go down.

In 2001 when I worked in the fields, they were paying .70 a gallon for dyed diesel. Now, they are paying upwards of $3.00 a gallon. That is a HUGE price increase.

Corn byproducts are just a stopgap for E85 right now. Remember, this "food stock" rumor is just that. Do some research and see what E85 is made out of.

Then you disagree with this 'link' ..http://healthandenergy.com/ethanol.htm included in my last post..and dismiss David Pimental(Cornell University Ag expert) as only promoting rumor.

How about adding a link supporting your position that ethanol is only derived from corn scrap left in the fields. I don't find that evidence here with local Indiana corn growers..and can't seem to find that specific info on the web...
Thanks

 

[bballr4567]

Its not the government that sets the price, its the market. Its one of the reasons why outside investing in commodities is looking at being banned due to the insane fluctuations in pricing that screw with everything and everyone.


Look, Ive had numerous talks about E85 in the past two-three years and it always boils down to corn being used and the fact that it IS renewable. Nothing gives you an energy surplus. NOTHING. Its impossible to gain energy from any reaction. Just not possible unless you start putting nuclear reactors under the hood.

E85 from corn is a STOP GAP. As soon as other infrastructure comes online, E85 will be the fuel of choice for every single car.

 

[RSchleder]

mmarges- I'm not a farmer as a mater of fact. I live in a farming state, Iowa, so I do somewhat understand Farm Subsides. And yes, right or wrong, they are and have been in effect for many, many years. By the way, very few humans eat field corn, animal feed is one of it's primary usages! The bottom line is, we really need to understand an issue before we go off one way or another and farm economics is not as straight forward as most folks think. Regards, Ron