[ScLoJohn]

I am hearing the 2011 Terrain 3.0 engines will be E85 compatible. Is there anything that has to be done to run E85 fuel in them? Can you switch back and forth from "regular" gas to E85 or do you have to stick with one or the other? I think I read somewhere that burning E85 will increase horsepower. How does E85 effect the mileage? In my area E85 is about 50-60 cents a gallon cheaper. Any info on these areas would be helpful.

Thanks, John

 

[NoobNox]

It's called a "flex fuel" engine meaning you can run regular unleaded as well as straight ethanol. Right now it doesn't make economic sense because E85 is a little more expensive than unleaded...and your gas mileage won't be as good as well. I have a co-worker with an 08 Impala flex fuel, and he tried a nearly full ethanol tank once and never went back to it. He said he couldn't really tell any performance difference but the gas mileage suffered a bit.

edit- just noticed the part of your post where ethanol is cheaper in your area...that wasn't the case a while back, but I haven't really paid attention to the price lately.

 

[2010BlkGraniteNox]

I am hearing the 2011 Terrain 3.0 engines will be E85 compatible. Is there anything that has to be done to run E85 fuel in them? Can you switch back and forth from "regular" gas to E85 or do you have to stick with one or the other? I think I read somewhere that burning E85 will increase horsepower. How does E85 effect the mileage? In my area E85 is about 50-60 cents a gallon cheaper. Any info on these areas would be helpful.

Thanks, John

E85 is not as efficient of a fuel, and will net much worse MPG's. Unless its a huge difference, I just run gasoline. In the US we fubar'd the E85 by using "corn" oil

But on the subject, you can switch back and furth as you need to. I think the Impala I have (3.5L FF) in the owners manual mentions 1/4 a tank or so, I have never followed that. I run E85 everyonce in a while just to clean out the engine, as its a great cleaner vs regular gasoline. When I add it i'm usually putting in on a 1/2 a tank or so, like I said I just use it for its amazing cleaning properties. Most people I know that run E85 are doing so for the performance aspect, ie its cheaper than racing gas, and a contains 105 Octane rating, when tuned for it you can net some nice increases on performance engines. I dont know anyone using it because its cheaper in the long run for them. The 3.0 will not net any more HP than on E85 vs regular 87 unless you tune for it. My 3.0 is tuned for 93 Octane, and there are some nice gains in the power band to be had with simple tuning, GM didnt do this because they wanted to keep the 87 regular fuel rating.

 

[RNOX]

Only 1 station near me sells E85. Cost is about 30 cents less than regular gas. I saw one person putting it into a Honda Odessey by mistake. She asked me the type of fuel it was and I explianed it to her. She was upset as she did not believe it was a flex fuel vehicle. She put in $10 worth. Told her may be best to fill up the tank with regular gas. She kept on asking other people around what to do.

 

[2010BlkGraniteNox]

Only 1 station near me sells E85. Cost is about 30 cents less than regular gas. I saw one person putting it into a Honda Odessey by mistake. She asked me the type of fuel it was and I explianed it to her. She was upset as she did not believe it was a flex fuel vehicle. She put in $10 worth. Told her may be best to fill up the tank with regular gas. She kept on asking other people around what to do.

Technically will not cause any issues to run it in a non-E85 setup if she didnt put too much in it

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E85_in_standard_engines

What is interesting is this is the first SIDI engine to have E85....So I'm really curious about the AFR's they will use. That is what would effect the fuel economy, by design SIDI runs leaner than SFI, if it can do this with E85 as well, it might actually be worth running

 

[mmarges]

People, shame on you for putting Ethanol in your tank.

Most Ethanol in the US is derived from corn. It takes approx. 26lbs of corn to produce 1 gal of ethanol fuel. (it still takes tonnes of "oil" anyway to fertilize, harvest and transport acres & acres of corn).

A tank of Ethanol required about 500lbs of corn to produce...in a world where millions of people are starving and you put 500lbs of corn in your gas tank to drive 500miles.

Producing Ethanol from Corn to fuel cars artificially increases the cost of all food containing corn and the cost of meat from animals that are fed corn...if the demand for corn grows farmers will switch their crops which will also cause other vegetable costs to increase.

If you sleep better at night knowing you produced a little less air pollution per tank of fuel...just think about how many months a person could live on 500lbs of corn.

 

[bballr4567]

Do you know what part of corn the ethanol is made of? Dont believe that crap that its human feed corn. Very, very, very few crops are actually for human consumption. Its mostly feed corn for livestock. Its a stepping stone. In 5 years, none will be made from corn but biowaste.

E85 will give you about 10-15% less MPGs BUT if you live in an area that is farm heavy, might as well support those folks. They get a decent cut from the subsidies.

 

[RIT333]

I can'T speak from experience of using E85, but based upon BTU content (Energy) of one fuel vs the other, E85 ought to reduce MPG by about 30% less than E10.

 

[RNOX]

People, shame on you for putting Ethanol in your tank.

Most Ethanol in the US is derived from corn. It takes approx. 26lbs of corn to produce 1 gal of ethanol fuel. (it still takes tonnes of "oil" anyway to fertilize, harvest and transport acres & acres of corn).

A tank of Ethanol required about 500lbs of corn to produce...in a world where millions of people are starving and you put 500lbs of corn in your gas tank to drive 500miles.

Producing Ethanol from Corn to fuel cars artificially increases the cost of all food containing corn and the cost of meat from animals that are fed corn...if the demand for corn grows farmers will switch their crops which will also cause other vegetable costs to increase.

If you sleep better at night knowing you produced a little less air pollution per tank of fuel...just think about how many months a person could live on 500lbs of corn.

Have no choice, Wgere I live all gas has at least 10% Ethanol. One station near me sells E85

 

[IceMan]

Do you know what part of corn the ethanol is made of? Dont believe that crap that its human feed corn. Very, very, very few crops are actually for human consumption. Its mostly feed corn for livestock. Its a stepping stone. In 5 years, none will be made from corn but biowaste.

E85 will give you about 10-15% less MPGs BUT if you live in an area that is farm heavy, might as well support those folks. They get a decent cut from the subsidies.

In my view..you actually helped prove mmarges point. Food production is a chain. Acreage in that chain figures into the abundance of what we can produce for food. Corn or food products are a poor choice for fuel since this influences farmers to grow acres for that fuel rather than food. Feed for livestock in turn feeds us..and can feed those in need. The more percentage of acres increased for multiplying fuel consumption must take the place of acres once used for feed. "Farm heavy" is a good term...but applies to an ever growing need for food..unless we import that as well. Perhaps that would put more $$ in the farmers pocket..supporting those folks...but just what have we then done considering the big picture?
Bio-waste..or using waste products for fuel may be one of the keys to future fuel needs..and sounds like the perfect avenue..solving several problems at once. However..any alternative must not only fuel personal vehicles..but the other 'chain' of trucks..buses..planes that haul and deliver other needs on a very busy daily bases. Slowing this process down could be disasterous. Of course the other 'chain' is a network of converting fueling stations. On top of that ..it must work..for all the current and future engines and transportation needs. Looks to me..that any 'change over' would take years in replacing our current system of oil based fuels and keep everything flowing in good working order. Ethenol has now been put into the system..for various reasons..(otherwise food for fuel)..and as it stands the demand will only increase...and probably dramatically. Again..more and more acres for fuel. Big business and our reliance seems to easily ignore the source of ethanol and damage that will be done. As mmarges tries to explain..we seem to devour ourselves or precious staples now in order to fuel other needs to sustain ourselves. We should have seriously started developement years ago to find 'A' usable alternative..rather than the mad rush all at once. That could be our downfall that eventually worsens the situation...until when and if someone comes up with something that actually has our best interests in mind...'Long term'.

 

[bballr4567]

The majority of feed corn is actually thrown out because it starts to mold and grows old. Trust me, there is really no difference in it getting thrown away to being paid to sell it for ethanol production.

Some people need to look at the actual stats of crops and how much is used for fuel and how much for feed. I think you ALL will be surprised.

 

[IceMan]

The majority of feed corn is actually thrown out because it starts to mold and grows old. Trust me, there is really no difference in it getting thrown away to being paid to sell it for ethanol production.

Some people need to look at the actual stats of crops and how much is used for fuel and how much for feed. I think you ALL will be surprised.

Sorry..
I was raised on a farm. Your theory doesn't compute with those experiences..but maybe things have changed. Sounds like we don't need much land to grow food anymore. If worse comes to worse..I suppose we can all become Vegans and grow backyard gardens to survive. 8)

 

[IceMan]

Here's what the 'No need for feed' modern ethanol farmer has converted to....

http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/4924476347/#in/photostream/

 

[bballr4567]

Sorry..
I was raised on a farm. Your theory doesn't compute with those experiences..but maybe things have changed. Sounds like we don't need much land to grow food anymore. If worse comes to worse..I suppose we can all become Vegans and grow backyard gardens to survive. 8)

And I worked on a farm for 8 years harvesting corn, grain, cotton and sometimes soybeans.


A lot of corn these days is so genetically engineered that you can even argument that its not even corn but that it just looks like it! with that, we will start to see an increase in ethanol corn as well as they start to engineer it for bigger yields as well.

I will agree that corn is the wrong thing to be making ethanol out of BUT its the only thing we can use right now. In a few years we will have cellulose plants up and running. Lots of ways to actually make ethanol, its just that none are as widespread as corn.

 

[IceMan]

Here in Indiana..we are engulfed in corn!
Well..I suppose if they can make it out of a lab...or out of something besides a food source...
...but if the need for ethanol replaces fields of wheat..feed corn...hay...soybeans...etc to meet demand..I still say..we are then really in trouble. Disrupt that growing food chain too much..then we are reduced to looking for other sources for sustenance. We could sure burn waste and get away with it(we have ever growing tons of it)..but then that would need to work well and efficiently. Seems our recent rush to make up for lost time has pre-empted a more reasonable transition from oil to something else. That..and the ever present and more important idea of a moneymaker. Seems I have more of a pessimistic view than some..but when I hear 'corn' I still tend to think salt,pepper and butter...and I would like to have a well fed slab of meat with that. Medium rare..thank you!

 

[mmarges]

IceMan, your replies well said, that's what I was getting at. For every acre of feed corn grown for Ethanol is one less acre used for real food. Not to mention all the fresh water used and the oil required for fertizer, pesticides and transport.

There is a simple equation in the universe. Energy is never lost or gained, it's just transfered.

Cleaner burning ethonal fuel will be offset by the fossil fuels farm machinery will use, fertilizer, transportation, consumption of fresh water ect...

There is always something on the other side of the equation! People believe electric cars are the solution. Hate to break the news to you but if the pollution isn't coming out the tail pipe it's coming out the smoke stack of a coal plant. Wait a minute we can use Nuclear to get the electricity to charge our batteries....did anybody consider how we'd handle the extra thousands of tonnes of nuclear waste that would incure should every car in the US become electric?

There is only 1 way to reduce pullution in this world and that is to reduce the energy we use....and how do you reduce the energy we use.... cut it off at the source that consumes it...population control.

 

[IceMan]

IceMan, your replies well said, that's what I was getting at. For every acre of feed corn grown for Ethanol is one less acre used for real food. Not to mention all the fresh water used and the oil required for fertizer, pesticides and transport.

There is a simple equation in the universe. Energy is never lost or gained, it's just transfered.

Cleaner burning ethonal fuel will be offset by the fossil fuels farm machinery will use, fertilizer, transportation, consumption of fresh water ect...

There is always something on the other side of the equation! People believe electric cars are the solution. Hate to break the news to you but if the pollution isn't coming out the tail pipe it's coming out the smoke stack of a coal plant. Wait a minute we can use Nuclear to get the electricity to charge our batteries....did anybody consider how we'd handle the extra thousands of tonnes of nuclear waste that would incure should every car in the US become electric?

There is only 1 way to reduce pullution in this world and that is to reduce the energy we use....and how do you reduce the energy we use.... cut it off at the source that consumes it...population control.

....uh..we already have that..and get this..it's called 'death'. With an aging babyboomer population..we're apt to have plenty of it in the forcast,too..!

 

[ScLoJohn]

Geez! Sorry I made the original post. Wasn't intended to start a debate on pros/cons of corn being used for fuel.

John

 

[RNOX]

The engine can burn E85 (2011)
E85 near me is $2.45 .vs $2.79 at one station near me. I live near NJ and you can get gas for $2.53

The Ethanol is made in the US

 

[mmarges]

Ethanol, although cleaner to burn is way less efficient, less btu's per volume.

I believe Gasoline has 116,000btu's/gal and Ethanol 76,000btu's/gal, a ratio of about 1.5:1

In other words expect to get get about 70% of the mileage per tank that you used to get.