[mmarges]

It amazes me how many people don't put on winter tires.

People will have vehicles worth $10k, 20k, 40k, $60k yet not have winters. They'll spend money on GPS's, iPods, Satellite radio subscriptions, fancy summer rims...yet not spend money on winter tires.

People....the winter tires themselves cost absolutely nothing because how many ever miles/km you drive on your winters is how much longer your all-seasons are going to last! The only real out of pocket espense when you count all the beans is the cost of the steel wheels (approx $300), the install/balance of the tires (approx $60), and the change over in the late fall and early spring every season (approx $60/yr...some people can do this themselves in the drive way and some shops include it for buying the tire package from them).

A winter tire set will last approx 5 seasons. So, that's $300 + $60 + ($60x5) = $660 over 5 years. = $132/year.

For those who do not believe in winter tires....$132 per year....take your heads out of your bum bum and get a set of snow's for your vehicle. This is very, very, very cheap insurance for the safety of you, your spouse, your children, other people and property and also your precious vehicle and the headache and inconveneience you'll have from even a little fender-bender.

Even the cheapest, no-name winter tires out there are 10x better the the best, most expensive all-seasons!

They made it law in Quebec to have winter tires...I can't wait until they make it law in Ontario.

 

[IceMan]

You seem to insist that anyone who doesn't think as you..surely has their head up their ass. Personally I don't agree with being forced to do much of anything...and very gratefully thankful that you are not King.

 

[LDNOX]

I don't have my head up my "bum bum" and don't agree with anything you have said. JMHO

 

[mmarges]

IceMan, your vote of no snow's explains it all.
Put aside your personal opinions of me...and like Obama might say, don't vote against it just becasue you can :

I'm curious, for a measly $132/year... after spending $30,000+ thousand on your new Equinox/Terrain, please, please make an argument against winters that might justify why your head doesn't belong in your ass. Seriously...your location (Indianna), is in the snow belt!

 

[IceMan]

It's also not a requirement that I make an argument about anything with you or anyone else. It is not manditory that If I disagree with you or your tatics...then I must further explain myself. After driving on the road for 45+ years..I do know exactly how I want to do that...and am quite aware of where I live and just what our winters are like.
What has Obama got to do with this?? ...and could care less about what the Obama might say.

 

[mmarges]

Well, the next time you slide just a few feet to fare or spin out of control and are seriously inconvenienced by and accident or god forbid you or a loved one or an innocent bystander is hurt you can just ponder about that measly $132/yr. It's a no brainer for people living in wintery conditions, but something dumb people would never get.

 

[admin2]

mmarges - your message is good. Your choice of words, yet again, are not. Is it really so hard to express your opinion without berating other members in the process?

 

[Terra-Nox]

Just to share general winter experiance, back before the internet was around rumur had it with the switch to radial tires you didn't need snow tires. Also rumur had it with FWD you didn't need snow tires.
When I bought a new Celebrity in 86' I thought I night test those ideas.
Going home from work one cold rainy day I found out about 3 miles from home it had started freezing on road and quickly realized I had no real control of it. Couldn't brake without sliding and even just idling along it would occaisionly break free and 'bounce' off the snow pack on side of road. Very scary remainder of trip. A set of GY F32's (same winter tire used by quite a few police departments) corrected the problem and it turned out to be a quite capable winter car.

Also to be considered is the age of the all seasons. When brand new they may be adequate for most situations but as they get more milage they may start to lose it from winter driving standpoint and I am sure some end up buying new ones to replace to replace ones that would still be reasonable dry/rain soaked ones.

 

[NoobNox]

Just to share general winter experiance, back before the internet was around rumur had it with the switch to radial tires you didn't need snow tires. Also rumur had it with FWD you didn't need snow tires.
When I bought a new Celebrity in 86' I thought I night test those ideas.
Going home from work one cold rainy day I found out about 3 miles from home it had started freezing on road and quickly realized I had no real control of it. Couldn't brake without sliding and even just idling along it would occaisionly break free and 'bounce' off the snow pack on side of road. Very scary remainder of trip. A set of GY F32's (same winter tire used by quite a few police departments) corrected the problem and it turned out to be a quite capable winter car.

Also to be considered is the age of the all seasons. When brand new they may be adequate for most situations but as they get more milage they may start to lose it from winter driving standpoint and I am sure some end up buying new ones to replace to replace ones that would still be reasonable dry/rain soaked ones.

To be fair, things have progressed since 86. Add anti-lock brakes, traction/stability control and modern all-season tires to that Celebrity and I bet it would have handled that trip a lot differently. 3.5 inches of snow might not seem like a lot to many of you, but that's exactly what I got in my area the week I brought my new Nox home....and my 2WD model handled it just fine. Bear in mind that I live in Texas where roads/streets aren't cleared and nobody has snow tires. If I lived in an area with several heavy snowfalls each winter I would probably get snow tires...but still opt for the lower cost, lighter weight 2WD model.

 

[Terra-Nox]

To be fair, things have progressed since 86. Add anti-lock brakes, traction/stability control and modern all-season tires to that Celebrity and I bet it would have handled that trip a lot differently. 3.5 inches of snow might not seem like a lot to many of you, but that's exactly what I got in my area the week I brought my new Nox home....and my 2WD model handled it just fine. Bear in mind that I live in Texas where roads/streets aren't cleared and nobody has snow tires. If I lived in an area with several heavy snowfalls each winter I would probably get snow tires...but still opt for the lower cost, lighter weight 2WD model.

Thats very true NoobNox, tires and and the other stuff have made things better.
Still from my viewpoint whether FWD,RWD,4WD,AWD, Anti-lock,stabil-trac enabled its the 4 little patchs of rubber that are going to determine what does or does not happen. Ones that can give you a little more grip on the slop can give you an edge at times.

 

[gar187er]

learn to drive in snow.....and know when not to drive in it......grew up in the pocono mountains of PA.....drove FWD since i was 16.....never had snows.....and i lived on a 22* grade hill that was about 800' long....

you know when you can safely drive, and when you cant.....same goes for now in my work van....granted im easier going with that as if my company really wants me out in it (to restore phone to a firehouse in the middle of last years blizzard) i go willingly...they pay for tows, damage, maint, etc......

for my personal, if its bad, it doesnt leave the driveway.....all too often(such as during that same blizzard) i see ahole turnaround in the middle of a 4' snow bank, and stuck.....i shake my head and keep chugging along in my 10,000lb work van with g933 knobs on the rear.....if the weather is soo bad it warrants different tires then all seasons...stay home.....

 

[mmarges]

mmarges - your message is good. Your choice of words, yet again, are not. Is it really so hard to express your opinion without berating other members in the process?

Ah man...even that was pushing it? Ok, I will tone it down even further.
Sorry.

I guesse my message to every one is...for the cost to reward ratio I think everyone living in a snow belt should have dedicated winter tires. I mean, for the out of pocket expense of $100-$150 per year just think of all the benefits, safety and piece of mind for you and everyone else and the grief you could save from even a simple fender bender. I'm sure we all drive with extra care in wintery conditions but mother nature throws us curves all the time that we can't anticipate. Considering the amount of money we pay for other automotive accessories winter tires should be on the list.

 

[gar187er]

thats nice you feel that way, but hate to tell you not everyone feels the same way....people are different you know....

you put a poll asking people opinion, and yet you keep shoving this idea that EVERYONE should have winter tires.....if you dont like our opinion, dont ask for it....

 

[mmarges]

I'm really just trying to get an idea of how many people fork over tens of thousands of dollars on new trucks but then pass on the measly $100-$150 per year for snow tires. Or, in other words...what percentage of drivers have their heads up their bum bum.

I'm not trying to shove the idea down anyones throat, I'm just curious that from those who voted NO, what is the reasoning? Can't be the $$$....heck you just spent tens of thousands on a new truck, maybe no place to store them?, too lazy to take your car to the shop to get them changed over or do it yourself?

Actually, I should have added another selection #4, "I've never used snow tires before, so have no comparison to determine if they are a waste of money of not"

 

[gar187er]

Actually, I should have added another selection #4, "I've never used snow tires before, so have no comparison to determine if they are a waste of money of not"

i do all my own repair work, suspension, engine, etc....my 'excuse' is i dont need them....ive driven plently of other people/relatives cars with them...and i have no prefence because when im driving its in safe conditions.....no snow tire equiped car/truck/suv should be on the road during a state wide emergency....nobody except emergency personal and utilities (me)....i wish ore people get pulled over and towed for that, but cops never do.....

 

[bballr4567]

If I lived in an area where the temp stayed below freezing for the majority of the winter, I would get winter tires. The rubber compound in them stays softer during the harsher temps while the other tires get harder and that is what makes them dangerous for the most part.

 

[PaleGreen]

Preach on, mmarges! In my experience, there is NO substitute for a set of modern winter tires. Our family's been swearing by Blizzaks for almost 20 years.

They made my old 3rd Gen f-body more than roadworthy. They enabled my Z24 to run circles around my neighbors' SUVs. My parents had a mid-90s Blazer 4x4 with locking rear diff that was utterly UNSTOPPABLE with Blizzaks all around! What'd they replace it with? Grand Cherokee with Blizzaks!

Don't cheap out, people. You invested in a nice ride, now invest in your safety!

 

[GARYD]

I have driven for 50 years in the Chjicago area, never had snow tires. Only had maybe 2 or 3 close calls, not because of my tires, but because of some %$#@ idiot doing a stupid thing in front of me. If you drive with common sense, you shouldn't need any special features on a car.

Another thing I've noticed, there are thousands of people driving in this area without snow tires and their heads are all up on their shoulders. ;D

I will put up a set of Nokian all season tires against a set of cheap snow tires and I'll bet the Nokians will run circles around those snow tires.

 

[mmarges]

I have driven for 50 years in the Chjicago area, never had snow tires. Only had maybe 2 or 3 close calls, not because of my tires, but because of some %$#@ idiot doing a stupid thing in front of me. If you drive with common sense, you shouldn't need any special features on a car.

With a couple close calls you think you'd be on board. There are a lot of idiot drivers out there...wouldn't you want to be armed as best possible to avoid them when they do their stupid manouvers?

I will put up a set of Nokian all season tires against a set of cheap snow tires and I'll bet the Nokians will run circles around those snow tires.

WRONG, there is not a single all season tire on the market that will out perform a dedicated winter tire. Even the best, most expensive all-season will not compare against the cheapest winter tire in sub
zero temperatures! The physical properties of rubber and the chemistry just simply cannot maintain it's designed properties at temperatures of +38C/100F deg and yet also down to -25C/-13F. No conventional automotive tire can adjust to such a huge temperature differential.

Also, arguments about just not driving when it's miserable out, or theres really only a small fraction of days that a winter storm is rolling through is invalid...1. most of us have to drive to work regardless if it's sh!tty out or not, we have no choice. and 2. Even when it's perfectly clear and dry out your stopping and handling performance is greatly reduced with all-seasons simply because it's freezing cold and all-season's harden. Winters maintain a higher friction coefficient by remaining softer in cold temperature.

You invest in a better all-season brand X because the performance is much better than brand Y...yet you settle for those same brand X all-seasons performace reducing to almost nothing over the winter months. Another point I'd like to make is I'm sure most of you invest in some pretty darned good expensive all-seasons anyway...wouldn't you want to stretch them and get an extra year or two out of them by putting winter milage on another set?

 

[gar187er]

Also, arguments about just not driving when it's miserable out, or theres really only a small fraction of days that a winter storm is rolling through is invalid...1. most of us have to drive to work regardless if it's sh!tty out or not, we have no choice. and 2. Even when it's perfectly clear and dry out your stopping and handling performance is greatly reduced with all-seasons simply because it's freezing cold and all-season's harden. Winters maintain a higher friction coefficient by remaining softer in cold temperature.

You invest in a better all-season brand X because the performance is much better than brand Y...yet you settle for those same brand X all-seasons performace reducing to almost nothing over the winter months. Another point I'd like to make is I'm sure most of you invest in some pretty darned good expensive all-seasons anyway...wouldn't you want to stretch them and get an extra year or two out of them by putting winter milage on another set?

theres miserable (which all seasons can handle just fine (some all season do have the mud/snow designation), and theres STAY OFF THE ROAD conditions.....

and what am i stretching by buying another set of tires? the life of my good all seasons by buying another set of tires?