You will NEVER find this information on the internet. It's just not published. They do have an "invoice price" but that is not what the dealer pays. There are hold backs (not just one but often two or three), monthly sales promotions, goal based cash based on sales, spins for salesman (at least some companies have this), financing perks, kickbacks, etc.Beagleman said:Can you give me any websites that reflects the actual dealer cost and the retail price of a Terrain down right to the penny. I can find some but most is the price of the sticker. Thanks for all your replys.
the AD usually says "one at this price" or something. its usually a stripped down model and the discount or special price doesnt apply to other versions.ObNOXious said:You will NEVER find this information on the internet. It's just not published. They do have an "invoice price" but that is not what the dealer pays. There are hold backs (not just one but often two or three), monthly sales promotions, goal based cash based on sales, spins for salesman (at least some companies have this), financing perks, kickbacks, etc.
If you want a good site to see what cars are selling for check www.truecar.com and www.edmunds.com has good information too.
But most dealerships would be VERY happy to sell you a vehicle at the "invoice" price listed on the internet all day long.
If it's a GREAT deal that you are looking for then check out the Sunday news paper. I have seen the Equinox and Terrain for almost $5000 off MSRP on a 2011. But this is what is known as a LOSS leader. It's an ad to get you to come to the dealership and they try to find another way to make money on your deal. (Low ball trade, etc.) If you go in and buy that vehicle and pay cash then you are going to get a great deal! But expect it to be on a unpopular version and they won't put the same discount an any other car in the lot.
Beagleman said:Can you give me any websites that reflects the actual dealer cost and the retail price of a Terrain down right to the penny. I can find some but most is the price of the sticker. Thanks for all your replys.
ObNOXious said:Consumer Reports can not provide all of the information. It can only talk about one vehicle at a time. Dealers also get $1000 cash back per vehicle sold if they sell a set number of vehicles within a time period. They have local perks, dealer spins, etc. So the price of a car is not only based on the "dealer invoice" of a specific vehicle it's based on sales for the month and how well the dealer meets goals.
Is a bigger dealer better? Usually, as small dealers don't hit their goals as easily. (Not the goal is a % of previous sales, not a fixed number.)
If you want to see the best deal spend $1 and pick up a Saturday or Sunday paper and look for the loss leader Equinox to get you in the dealership. And buy that car. Many of those deals are $1000-2000 UNDER what the dealer paid. Very often the dealer will advertise a car a a LOSS to get people in the door.
Consumer Reports won't help on that deal; because you would end up paying $2000 more than you needed.
What Consumer Reports can do is make most people feel like they got a good deal; and it can help someone who can't negotiate very well get a price below sticker. But it will never have the true dealer cost. It just doesn't have all of the information as there are more variables in the equation than just the cost of the vehicle.
Solrak69 said:Disagree 100%. These are not one-of-a-kind high luxury custom made cars (limited production) where one might be completely different from another. These are mass produced production line cars, they are ALL the same except for the added options. Consumer Reports lists the base price for the vehicle and the price for ALL it's possible options, period. You take the base price + options and that = your true dealer cost. My way I don't negotiate, because it's right there in simple black & white for the dealer to see, they cannot weasel their way out of it... Consumer Reports is unbiased and doesn't lie. Dealer "perks or spins" as you say (AKA Dealer Hold Backs) is something completely different, it varies and is unique to specific auto manufactures and dealers.
Those "best deals" you speak of in a newspaper are BS. If you see the fine print, they list the VIN #.. so the deal is only for that one particular vehicle, when you get into the dealer and ask about that car/price they'll tell you "Oh sorry, we just sold that one in the ad, but we have this one...."
It's your typical Bait & Switch... my $0.02
ObNOXious said:Sorry you disagree 100%. I have some insight as I worked for a major manufacture, not GM, although they all are quite similar. And I was NOT in car sales, I wrote the IT software that paid dealers for all of these perks. The perks are where the dealer makes the MOST profit. Today dealers expect almost everyone coming in the door to know the invoice. Did you really think buy getting consumer reports you found out something that's top secret? Or gives you an advantage. No. They dealer is very aware of what the public knows and they user that to their advantage. By "thinking" you know the real price you walk right into the dealer trap. But where do you think Consumer reports get the dealer price? They get it from the manufacture!
So it seems you missed the major point of my post. Dealers don't think about "one car" at a time like a customer does. Do you think McDonald's worries about each hamburger and they focus on making a profit on each item? That's not how it works. Most of the $1 menu is a loss leader hoping you pay $2 for a soda that cost them 5 cents. Dealers think about VOLUME! Moving as many units, selling extended warranties, padding profit. And you can't pad profit unless you are moving inventory.
So when buying a car you need to think like a dealer to get the best price.
Also, those special deals in the newspaper are REAL. It's not legal to post them and the car does exist. I help out friends who ask me to help them get a great deal using these ads. You just have to accept what they offer, nothing more. It's a bait and switch for 99% of the people. If you don't take the switch you get a great deal. And this post was about how to get the best deal. So that is a strong tactic.
In a nutshell if you are happy paying what consumer reports says, then that's great. Almost all dealers selling mass produced cars will happily sell cars ALL day at invoice. Because they will get a replacement in a few days. In fact they will be ecstatic to sell that at that price!
But don't discount what you don't know and hurt others ability here to get a MUCH better deal by telling everyone "Consumer Reports is unbiased and doesn't lie." Sure, it's not a lie, but it's asking the wrong question.
Actually, do you work for Consumer Reports? (Just checking, because this is staring to sound like a plug.)
Between the two of us we gave anyone who asks two ways to approach the dealership!Solrak69 said:Fact, the Consumer Reports way I paid BELOW dealer invoice. Fact, the dealer gave me *their invoice* as a last resort when I walked out the door, so I took it home and compared it to Consumer Reports which was actually LOWER than the dealer's invoice, so the dealer's invoice in this particular instance (and many I'm sure) was BS. They would not budge on their so called invoice, that was UNTIL I brought in the Consumer Reports and put it down on the table as my last resort negotiating tool, then they couldn't BS me anymore, I bought below their BS dealer invoice. Most everything you say is your personal opinion, not fact.
The newspaper ad's are BS for the major most part... they do advertise a certain deal/price, but it pertains to one or two specific cars (VIN #'s listed), but there's NOTHING illegal about them telling you when you come to inquire, "Sorry, that car has already been sold, but we have this one here."
So don't discount what you don't believe and hurt others ability here to get a MUCH better deal, by hearing it from someone who purchased below invoice doing it that way. The point is that all these different methods work (I've tried them all in my lifetime) and some work much better than others.
Happy shopping all
BTW I have family in the auto industry, working at a Chevy dealership. I don't work for Consumer Reports, but they have never let me down, ever...
ObNOXious said:Between the two of us we gave anyone who asks two ways to approach the dealership!
As always - there is no perfect solution. And a lot depends on the mood of the General Manger on the day you want to buy. (Seems you had a dealer with a lot of BS.)
Happy shopping all
HAHAHAHAHA!!!!!! I am the wife.... and my motto is NEVER take hubby with me to buy a car! He is the one who falls in love with a vehicle and HAS to have it! I'm the one who does the research and will walk away... and walk away... and walk away again! Car dealers really must know that men are suckers for the new car! LOLOL (Just have to take up for us girls!)Solrak69 said:oh yea, and never take the wife with you, cause they'll try and get to her to make the sale!!! ;D :
Sure...although not called "invoices" by name...these "amounts" are what pays the light bill, mortage etc.njeandgmc said:...they also have invoices that reflect incentives, holdbacks, etc (?). Just wondering if anyone knows about this.
I agree... but it sounds like some have negotiated somewhere between "invoice" and that raw cost. I'm in the unenviable position of having negative equity on my trade, so negotiations get a little trickier. Just hoping that between the dealer's actual cost and the $1K loyalty incentive, that I can come out of the deal feeling good about it.MOCHANOX said:Sure...although not called "invoices" by name...these "amounts" are what pays the light bill, mortage etc.
It is wholly unrealistic for a consumer (and I am NOT referring to you) to expect to "get into" these funds
Now having said that...you'd have to be a very close blood realtive to the Dealer Principle to have a cold chance in "H E double hockey sticks" of buying a car at raw cost.