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UPDATE: 6000 mile oil change: 6000 miles since changing the intake manifold. There was about 1/4 cup of oil in the catch can. I can't freaking believe the PCV orifice is clogged again after only 6,000 miles....this is unacceptable!!! GM needs to address this problem!!! Removing the intake manifold to clean the PCV orifice every 6000 miles is way beyond what I would call "normal" maintenance!!
 

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Try the cfm vented oil cap, $80, it has a nylon ball that won't let air into crankcase.
It will vent crankcase pressure,
and if you live where it is cold in winter
It will prevent rear main seal failure.

Your clean side catch can should then stay empty .....
 

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UPDATE: 6000 mile oil change: 6000 miles since changing the intake manifold. There was about 1/4 cup of oil in the catch can. I can't freaking believe the PCV orifice is clogged again after only 6,000 miles....this is unacceptable!!! GM needs to address this problem!!! Removing the intake manifold to clean the PCV orifice every 6000 miles is way beyond what I would call "normal" maintenance!!
Have you removed the manifold? If so what year and was the ac line in the way?
 

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Have you removed the manifold? If so what year and was the ac line in the way?
Yes I replaced the intake manifold, I have a 2012. I don't remember the A/C line being an issue. The insulator "blanket" that covers the manifold did not make it back in though.
 

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Try the cfm vented oil cap, $80, it has a nylon ball that won't let air into crankcase.
It will vent crankcase pressure,
and if you live where it is cold in winter
It will prevent rear main seal failure.

Your clean side catch can should then stay empty .....
I did use one of those while I was searching for the right catch can. The actual problem is the piston ring blow-by. I'm over the 120K mile TSB limit, so trying to decide what to do....change the pistons and rings myself....try and get a dealer to change them despite the fact I'm over 120K miles (I had an oil consumption test done at 118K, so at least they have a record of that)..., or find a totaled post 2013 Nox and replace the engine.
 

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EricJ......Gotcha,
you have "blowby" which increases crankcase pressure.
I bet the dirty side PCV orifice is NOT plugged,
I think you would get more gunk in your cleanside catchcan if it was plugged.

Your Equinox crankcase pressure is so great, that all the "blowby" pressure can NOT be vented through your dirty side PCV orifice,
therefor the high crankcase crank case pressure from blowby also vents through the cleanside PVC breather hose, and fills your catchcan.

The "vented" oil cap, should keep crankcase pressure at zero, or at negative pressure (vacuum),
and in theory, prevent your catch can from filling up, even if you have blowby.
Also, by keeping your crankcase pressure at zero (or negative) , your oil control ring might be able to "control" oil better.

GM said they "fixed the problem"
.... with a 5-25-2013 running production change....
... as summarized in gm techlink, august 2013

===> 2.4L Ecotec Engine Oil Consumption
August 6, 2013
Excessive oil consumption on 2010-2013 Equinox, Terrain equipped with the 2.4L engine
If excessive oil consumption is confirmed after an oil consumption test, new pistons and piston rings should be installed.
(THE FIX IS.... Piston Ring Coating)

The top compression ring in the new kit has a more robust coating on it that is designed not to wear as quickly as the original coating. Tests indicate that it wears about 4-5 times longer than the original coating.

If the top compression ring is worn, it will allow combustion pressure past it, which causes the oil control rings to be less effective and results in excessive oil consumption

Zebra Stripes

The pistons must be replaced because as the rings wear down, it starts to widen the piston ring groves. The worn grooves will not retain the new rings correctly.

The “zebra” stripping on the bore surface is not an indication of a cylinder bore abnormality, but rather a transfer of the ring material as it was worn down. The bores are still uniform and the new rings seal.
The validation of the new ring pack was done on used blocks that had zebra striping. It’s not necessary to do any surface treatment to the zebra striped bores when installing the new pistons and rings.
^^ From techlink ^^

Obviously,
your suggestions of new piston and rings
Or a new engine.... would address root cause of blowby and oil consumption.
 
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EricJ......Gotcha,
you have "blowby" which increases crankcase pressure.
I bet the dirty side PCV orifice is NOT plugged,
I think you would get more gunk in your cleanside catchcan if it was plugged.

Your Equinox crankcase pressure is so great, that all the "blowby" pressure can NOT be vented through your dirty side PCV orifice,
therefor the high crankcase crank case pressure from blowby also vents through the cleanside PVC breather hose, and fills your catchcan.

The "vented" oil cap, should keep crankcase pressure at zero, or at negative pressure (vacuum),
and in theory, prevent your catch can from filling up, even if you have blowby.
Also, by keeping your crankcase pressure at zero (or negative) , your oil control ring might be able to "control" oil better.

GM said they "fixed the problem"
.... with a 5-25-2013 running production change....
... as summarized in gm techlink, august 2013

===> 2.4L Ecotec Engine Oil Consumption
August 6, 2013
Excessive oil consumption on 2010-2013 Equinox, Terrain equipped with the 2.4L engine
If excessive oil consumption is confirmed after an oil consumption test, new pistons and piston rings should be installed.
(THE FIX IS.... Piston Ring Coating)

The top compression ring in the new kit has a more robust coating on it that is designed not to wear as quickly as the original coating. Tests indicate that it wears about 4-5 times longer than the original coating.

If the top compression ring is worn, it will allow combustion pressure past it, which causes the oil control rings to be less effective and results in excessive oil consumption

Zebra Stripes

The pistons must be replaced because as the rings wear down, it starts to widen the piston ring groves. The worn grooves will not retain the new rings correctly.

The “zebra” stripping on the bore surface is not an indication of a cylinder bore abnormality, but rather a transfer of the ring material as it was worn down. The bores are still uniform and the new rings seal.
The validation of the new ring pack was done on used blocks that had zebra striping. It’s not necessary to do any surface treatment to the zebra striped bores when installing the new pistons and rings.
^^ From techlink ^^

Obviously,
your suggestions of new piston and rings
Or a new engine.... would address root cause of blowby and oil consumption.
Did you do any testing on the vented cap to see at what manifold pressure (crack pressure) it opens. Which vented cap did you use? I have found on my NOX, even with fully open orifice, new pistons and rings, cruise speed under moderate load, intake vacuum goes to near zero and pushes/pulls moisture through the cleanside. The key is intake vacuum. City driving, the cleanside tube and cap stay dry.
 

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Sydnesb,
You have good questions.
First allow me to ask you,
Do you have a V6 ?
Do you have the larger holes in your dirty side PCV orifice?

EricJ , in his posts above, ^^ said he cleaned (replaced) his dirty side PCV orifice in his 4 cylinder equinox.
(the intake manifold has the about 0.080 of an inch diameter, by 1/4 length, orifice (hole) molded into the manifold)

But then, AGAIN, soon he started getting crankcase oil-gunk pushed out his cleanside breather hose, into his cleanside catchcan.

The point is, that his dirty side PCV orifice can not vent crankcase pressure from piston blowby fast enough,
Thus
the crankcase pressure and the resulting vapor oil-gunk is also escaping through his clean side PCV breather hose.

Even though EricJ very skillfully disassembled his engine, and installed a brand new plastic intake manifold(= new dirty side PCV orifice)
EricJ's new dirty side PCV orifice, very quickly gunked up with engine oil, and other gunk.....
And crankcase pressure correspondingly increased
Thus more gunk went out his cleanside PCV breather hose, as he described in his comments above ^^


I use the cfm oil cap
You ask, ..... Did I do any Testing of cfm cap to determine cracking pressure??
YES!
Using my lungs and mouth, on a brand new cfm oil cap
I can easily blow air out thru the cfm vented oil cap,
thus cracking pressure is close to zero,
I would guess 1/10 of a psi is cracking pressure.

FYI, on the fc219 oil cap, I have read on these forums that you can not blow air through fc219 cap using mouth and lungs, thus cracking pressure on the fc219 cap is greater then 1.3 psi

FYI
I have the cfm vented cap on my 2012 V6 traverse with 80 k miles. It has the smaller holes in the dirty side PCV orifice.
I switched to the cfm oil cap on last January ( at about 70k miles) after addidas shared his brilliant discovered of cfm vented oil cap.
I used to get oil-crankcase-gunk in air box hose ( after air filter and before throttle body). The gunk would flow from the crankcase, up the cleanside PCV breather hose and then deposit the gunk in the air box (after air filter and before throttle body)
Last month during disassembly of the engine in order to do a walnut blast of the intake valves
I inspected the air box hose (after air filter and before throttle body)
And it was bone dry, 100 percent oil free.
So my conclusion is .... that instead of having crankcase gasses oil-gunk, backing up my cleanside pcv breather hose and then condensing the oil-gunk in my air box ( after air filter and before throttle body)
That the cfm cap keeps crankcase pressure close to zero, thus eliminating that problem.

Also FYI
Both my 2012 V6 traverse and my 2017 V6 equinox both have the same/similar engines, both have the cfm oil cap.

But, the 2012 has small holes in the dirty side PCV orifice
And the 2017 has large holes in the dirty side pcv orifice
Both have the same catch can, the catch can is spliced into the hose after the dirty side PCV orifice...
But,
not surprisingly the 2017 accumulates at least 2x the amount of liquid crankcase gunk in the catch can as the 2012.
Why?
Even though the 2012 probably has more piston blowby,
The 2017 has more liquid crankcase gunk in its catch can then the 2012 has in its catch can....
BECAUSE the 2017 has larger holes in its dirty side PCV orifice.
BECAUSE Only piston-combustion chamber vacuum sucks crankcase gasses out of crankcase via dirty side PCV, smaller holes means less gunk gets sucked,
bigger holes means more crankcase gunk gets sucked.

My 2 cents^^^
 

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I have a 2014 2.4 I just bought. I am trying to be proactive and do what I can to make the 2.4 engine last(also transmission etc). I added a ac delco cap with internal vent(was $10) just as a safety net. The terrain has never had anything done to it(was at 53,000 miles) except oil changes every 6k miles. I know they were supposed to have fixed the oil issue 5/2013 and after, but I wanted to be safe with the vented cap as a if it happens I have the vent, if not, oh well. The line going from upper intake to top of motor was almost spotless clean, zero oil came out, zero oil or water in that holding area in the intake cover thing. I spayed it out with carb cleaner and was clean. The throttle body also was very good, some minor brown, spray alone got it off in seconds. I sprayed the hole on top left of motor too. Is there anything else to look out for? Will be changing oil every 5k to 6k with only mobile 1 or penzoil ultra platinum 5w30 and using oem filters. Will do fluid exchanges on transmission every 15k with valvoline or havoline full synthetic and mobile 1 or valvoline in differentials every 25k.
 

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You are on the right track. I did the AC Delco cap on my wife's 2017 Nox 2.4. With the cold weather, I noticed more moisture and creamy crud ending up in the PCV line to the Intake plenum. Last night, I finally did what I had been intending to do and put a air / oil separator in the PCV line to collect the nonsense that comes thru there. This is a temp solution just to see if it actually works and if it does I will go to a better catch can unit and do a more professional looking install. Keeping the crap out of the line and especially from collecting and possibly freezing in the intake plenum and causing pressure issues is my main goal.

Like I stated, this is just a temp solution to see how well things work. So the setup is functional and not show car ready. I had a old Jeg's air / oil separator sitting around and some 3/8" fuel line. I just cut the plastic PCV tubing and slid the ends into the fuel hose. I have the line from the valve cover go to the "in" side of the separator, the "out" side going to the intake plenum. The tubing fits nice and tight in the 3/8" hose, so I didn't use any clamps. As tight as the fit is there is little possibility of a separation. Whole job done in 15 minutes.
 

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Is it safe to assume no pressure relief cap or catch can is needed on GM motors starting in 2018?
 

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Is it safe to assume no pressure relief cap or catch can is needed on GM motors starting in 2018?

The +2018 turbo engines have a traditional external PCV. So easier to service or check for any clogging issues. Also, it is of a larger diameter than the tiny internal 2.4L previous engine.

Plus, , so far I have not heard or seen any owners complain of any frozen of clogged PCV paths.
 

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Sydnesb,
You have good questions.
First allow me to ask you,
Do you have a V6 ?
Do you have the larger holes in your dirty side PCV orifice?

EricJ , in his posts above, ^^ said he cleaned (replaced) his dirty side PCV orifice in his 4 cylinder equinox.
(the intake manifold has the about 0.080 of an inch diameter, by 1/4 length, orifice (hole) molded into the manifold)

But then, AGAIN, soon he started getting crankcase oil-gunk pushed out his cleanside breather hose, into his cleanside catchcan.

The point is, that his dirty side PCV orifice can not vent crankcase pressure from piston blowby fast enough,
Thus
the crankcase pressure and the resulting vapor oil-gunk is also escaping through his clean side PCV breather hose.

Even though EricJ very skillfully disassembled his engine, and installed a brand new plastic intake manifold(= new dirty side PCV orifice)
EricJ's new dirty side PCV orifice, very quickly gunked up with engine oil, and other gunk.....
And crankcase pressure correspondingly increased
Thus more gunk went out his cleanside PCV breather hose, as he described in his comments above ^^


I use the cfm oil cap
You ask, ..... Did I do any Testing of cfm cap to determine cracking pressure??
YES!
Using my lungs and mouth, on a brand new cfm oil cap
I can easily blow air out thru the cfm vented oil cap,
thus cracking pressure is close to zero,
I would guess 1/10 of a psi is cracking pressure.

FYI, on the fc219 oil cap, I have read on these forums that you can not blow air through fc219 cap using mouth and lungs, thus cracking pressure on the fc219 cap is greater then 1.3 psi

FYI
I have the cfm vented cap on my 2012 V6 traverse with 80 k miles. It has the smaller holes in the dirty side PCV orifice.
I switched to the cfm oil cap on last January ( at about 70k miles) after addidas shared his brilliant discovered of cfm vented oil cap.
I used to get oil-crankcase-gunk in air box hose ( after air filter and before throttle body). The gunk would flow from the crankcase, up the cleanside PCV breather hose and then deposit the gunk in the air box (after air filter and before throttle body)
Last month during disassembly of the engine in order to do a walnut blast of the intake valves
I inspected the air box hose (after air filter and before throttle body)
And it was bone dry, 100 percent oil free.
So my conclusion is .... that instead of having crankcase gasses oil-gunk, backing up my cleanside pcv breather hose and then condensing the oil-gunk in my air box ( after air filter and before throttle body)
That the cfm cap keeps crankcase pressure close to zero, thus eliminating that problem.

Also FYI
Both my 2012 V6 traverse and my 2017 V6 equinox both have the same/similar engines, both have the cfm oil cap.

But, the 2012 has small holes in the dirty side PCV orifice
And the 2017 has large holes in the dirty side pcv orifice
Both have the same catch can, the catch can is spliced into the hose after the dirty side PCV orifice...
But,
not surprisingly the 2017 accumulates at least 2x the amount of liquid crankcase gunk in the catch can as the 2012.
Why?
Even though the 2012 probably has more piston blowby,
The 2017 has more liquid crankcase gunk in its catch can then the 2012 has in its catch can....
BECAUSE the 2017 has larger holes in its dirty side PCV orifice.
BECAUSE Only piston-combustion chamber vacuum sucks crankcase gasses out of crankcase via dirty side PCV, smaller holes means less gunk gets sucked,
bigger holes means more crankcase gunk gets sucked.

My 2 cents^^^
My Nox is a 2.4L. Does the V-6 have the same extreme blowby, freezing PCV ports and rear seal failures as the I-4?

The stock intake is a fixed orifice, meaning there will be a fixed flow rate for given pressure or vacuum. At idle and low speeds and loads the vacuum is higher, at higher speeds and higher loads there is less vacuum and thus lower flow rates through the fixed orifice. I have measured less than 1 in of vacuum, sometimes positive pressure on the 2.4L running at 65mph, low loads,very slight grades. This is with a clear orifice, new pistons and rings, and maximum compression on all four cylinders. GM screwed up and went the cheap route and deleted the external PCV and valve. In order to control blow-by and pressures in the engine, a vacuum must be present and in sufficient quantity.

The worse the blow-by, and the worse the fuel dilution in the oil, coupled with excessive moisture and low vacuum it will most certainly push this corrosive acid/oil emulsion mix you call gunk out the cleanside.

"That the cfm cap keeps crankcase pressure close to zero, thus eliminating that problem."

Putting in vented cap only worsens the accumulation of corrosive acids inside the engine. Better to remove this gunk and capture it in a catch can/separator than leave it in your engine. That is why the FC219 has a higher crack pressure. If it vented at the slightest pressure like the CFM, the PCV system would fail at removing the unwanted gases and acids at high engine loads and speeds where it occurs most often. The CFM is only band-aid. The solution is to provide adequate vacuum at all engine loads.

A true PCV valve with tapered seat and spring will control flow rate based on engine speed and load and keep moisture and blow-by out of your engine. The CFM was not designed at all for Equinox/Terrain or any other passenger vehicle. It was designed for high performance, forced induction engines of vastly larger displacement that never see the high moisture and blow-by accumulation conditions that are in the these passenger vehicle engines. In fact, many of these performance cars use dry sump systems and some actually have crank driven vacuum pumps.

My 2.4L PCV system stays bone dry in the warmer months, and low humidity, driving in the city where the engine is drawing adequate vacuum through the fixed orifice. When I get on the highway with low vacuum conditions is when I get the gunk, worse in the colder months. A cleanside separator provides more protection, it removes the unwanted gunk, it does not freeze up like the CFM, it is easily inspected and cleaned, and it costs less.

Yes, your 2017 V-6 with large orfices will draw more oil and moisture than the smaller orifices on your 2012. I don't think anyone is arguing with you on this. Basic air flow physics. A 1/16" orifice at 20" of vacuum (idle, deceleration) will flow 4x more air than an engine at high engine and speeds where you have only a few inches of vacuum or less. Where would you want that high air flow, at idle or cruising speeds.
 

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Respectfully Sydnesb,
You said ===>. Putting in vented cap only worsens the accumulation of corrosive acids inside the engine. <===
And I say,
I disagree. Lower crankcase pressure means less "corrosive acids" inside crankcase.

The crankcase can be described as a closed container.
Piston blowby pressure, past worn rings, or piston blowby under wide open throttle, both increase crankcase pressure.
Corrosive piston blow by gasses' and resulting crankcase pressure can only escape from crankcase through two "holes"
1) the 2 mm diameter dirty side PCV orifice, (which in the 2.4 liter equinox has a tendency to plug up with oil and crankcase gunk)
And 2)
the cleanside PCV "sintered" vent and breather hose assembly.

The cfm oil cap, provides a third path of venting crankcase pressure,
and venting all those gasses out old crankcase is best for longer oil life and best for the inside of engine.

Sydnesb, you said ===> That is why the FC219 has a higher crack pressure. If it vented at the slightest pressure like the CFM, the PCV system would fail at removing the unwanted gases and acids at high engine loads and speeds where it occurs most often. <=====
And I say,
I disagree...

When
the intake manifold is under high vacuum (like when you are decelerating)
then crankcase is under vacuum, as vacuum is pulled through dirty side PCV orifice( assuming no piston blowby from really bad piston rings)
then
both cfm and fc219 cap are both sealed and do not let "unmetered" air into crankcase.

When engine is under wide open throttle, and you have piston blowby, (even with good piston rings),
Then the crankcase has positive pressure,
And then
the cfm oil cap immediately relieves crankcase pressure.
(thus also reducing crankcase gunk flowing out cleanside PCV breather vent.)

Higher cracking pressure of the fc219 is not as good as the lower cracking pressure in the cfm oil cap.( you get more gunk flowing out cleanside PCV breather vent at higher cracking pressure. )


The following article says the opposite of your claim that "high crankcase pressure is good. "
The following article says lower crankcase pressure has benefits.
DSportmag dot com, in an article titled
Quick Tech: benefits of lowering crankcase pressure, part 1
Says.....
"When pressure in the crankcase can be reduced, taken to zero, good things happen.
Reduced crankcase pressure improves the sealing of the rings in the cylinder.
Increased differential pressure on the piston rings results in improved ring seal.
" Having zero pressure, improves the ring seal during the intake stroke"
https://dsportmag.com/the-tech/quick-tech-the-benefits-of-lowering-crankcase-pressure-part-1/
That ^^ is what the article says .... ^^

Sydnesb, you said
====> The CFM is only band-aid. The solution is to provide adequate vacuum at all engine loads.<====
And I say,
-Kindly, Please tell me Sydnesb, How do i implement an "adequate vacuum at all engine speeds"
Tell me how to implement it on my 4 cylinder equinox
Be specific,
what to buy?
what hoses have to be cut during install,
where to put the device in the engine compartment?
And how to supply power to the device?

And finally Sydnesb,
-So what if CFM oil cap is a band-aide? ? ?

The cfm oil cap "band aide" prevents crankshaft rear main seal failure
and as the article in dsportmag says
"good things happen"
to your engine when you keep your crankcase at lower pressure.
 

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Ok, boys and girls. Just completed approx 1000 mile road trip with the CP air / oil separator on the 2017 Nox 2.4L clean side. What this picture shows is some hard running for 500 miles. I got the same amount the previous 500 miles and dumped it when I got to our destination. This was the return home stuff. Lots of grades, so RPM's would get ramped up pretty good on some of the pulls. Probably would get less if poking around town or easy, casual rural driving. Y'all can be the judge of whether it does any good, or if you would prefer to have the contents of this going into your intake and all over your valves. No oil consumption. Just a hair off the full mark at about 4800 miles on the oil change.
 

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Is it safe to assume no pressure relief cap or catch can is needed on GM motors starting in 2018?
The +2018 turbo engines have a traditional external PCV. So easier to service or check for any clogging issues. Also, it is of a larger diameter than the tiny internal 2.4L previous engine.

Plus, , so far I have not heard or seen any owners complain of any frozen of clogged PCV paths.
JayTee effectively responded to the first part of tic's question. What about the second part... Is a catch can need on 2018+ GM turbo engines, as a preventative measure? Has anyone installed one on those engines? Specifically, I'm curious about installation on a 2.0 turbo on my '18 Terrain. I can easily find kits for LTG engines in a Camaro or Caddy ATS, but I'm not finding anything for a Gen2 Terrain or Gen3 Nox.
 

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EricJ......Gotcha,
you have "blowby" which increases crankcase pressure.
I bet the dirty side PCV orifice is NOT plugged,
I think you would get more gunk in your cleanside catchcan if it was plugged.

Your Equinox crankcase pressure is so great, that all the "blowby" pressure can NOT be vented through your dirty side PCV orifice,
therefor the high crankcase crank case pressure from blowby also vents through the cleanside PVC breather hose, and fills your catchcan.

The "vented" oil cap, should keep crankcase pressure at zero, or at negative pressure (vacuum),
and in theory, prevent your catch can from filling up, even if you have blowby.
Also, by keeping your crankcase pressure at zero (or negative) , your oil control ring might be able to "control" oil better.

.......
Thanks for the info! I haven't used the CFM oil cap breather since I installed the catch can; but I think it may be a good idea! I'll give it a shot!
 

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Since I have seen conflicting info. And I have searched far and wide! Can someone please tell me, in very simple words is the hose coming out of the valve cover supposed to suck air into the valve cover or blow air out of the valve cover?Also, should there be air blowing out of the oil cap hole or air being sucked in to it?
2.4 / 2010

Thank you in advance!
 

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The simple answer is....it does both. If properly working on a healthy engine, and under most light driving conditions, there should be a very slight suction of fresh air into the engine. However under heavy throttle conditions or when lugging the engine, some outflow is going to happen. However as engine mileage gets higher more blow-by is going to happen ( due to piston, rings and cylinder wall wear) , and due to a poorly designed PCV system where the orifice blocks up, it is common to see no suction at all. ( only outflow ). Much the same should happen at the oil filler cap but with more pulsations.
 

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I purchased a 2010 / 2.4 with an engine that was rebuilt completely inside and out. Basically a factory new engine. But with better pistons and rings too. It's got 35k so far.
So the intake is new also. And was drilled as the recall before install. When I remove the hose out of the valve cover, I get puffs of air out. Same with the oil fill hole, air puffs out, AT IDLE.
From my understanding, there should be, at idle, suction in to the valve cover and air coming out of the oil fill hole at idle.
I also have gotten the FC219 oil cap a while back just to be safe. I have no issues with it. Runs perfect. I don't have any condensation or oil in the air plenum. I'm trying to determine if the pcv orifice is stopped up or not.
 
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