[Jbee]

Maybe some of you will be highly entertained by this.

I use a bicycle shifter cable to "snake" through the valve cover PCV inlet. Was able to get about 8 inches of cable into the motor.

The cable seems to have removed/loosed some gunk from the PCV. Better air flow through the system now.

 

[24882]

Was able to get about 8 inches

That's what she said!

 

[Jbee]

Lol. And that was only 1/4 of the way

 

[staras]

Could you post pictures of procedure?
Thanks

 

[Copperhead]

You don't say your odometer reading but 1,500 per quart, while not optimal, is not terrible.

I guess it is all relative. My semi truck has a remanned Detroit 12.7L engine in it. Now has 967,000 miles on the reman. Will go over 1 million miles in late summer. All original. It uses only 1 qt of oil in 11,000 miles and gets 22,500 mile oil changes. It is just plain criminal that these little motor scooter engines in these GM vehicles are drinking oil like gasoline.

 

[Vernal1]

PCV FIX! Not a temporary repair!

I just figured out how to fix the pcv problem! You Tube Video coming soon!

 

[sydnesb]

Hey guys, just a heads up, we've added an Nox specific listing for the breather. We've had quite a few of you contact us about them and the guys that have them are pretty happy.

https://www.c-f-m.com/performancepa...-Equinox-GMC-Terrain-2-4L-Ecotec-720p6443.htm

If you have any questions, let me know!

Hi Chris, I was one of the members that contacted you about the valve cover breather in January. I noticed you joined the forum shortly afterwards. Below is synopsis of the conversation about this line of breathers.

1. Fact this breather is for racing applications per Chris and website.
2. Although CFM claims it has years of design and testing, FACT, they cannot produce any information or data per Chris.
3. Fact, Chris acknowledges the breather is for large displacement and boosted race engines, and admits these engines produce much higher crankcase pressures, than Gen 2 GMC and Chevy Ecotec I4 engines.
4. Fact, per Chris they have no information on flow rates, crack pressures, pressure differential on their breather or any engine application they recommend the breather for.
5. Fact, per Chris the breather is same for every application, except for crankcase fitting (threaded or 1/4 turn).
6. Fact, Chris claims this breather is a suitable solution for the crankcase pressure problems in the the Cadillac CTS-V, despite GM developing a vented cap specific for this vehicle.
7. Fact, when told about large potential customer base through these forums, I asked if he could give us some assurance and produce specs and data that this breather will prevent the rear seal failures, his response after several minutes of no response, "In no way can I guarantee that the breather will prevent a rear main seal failure as that is not it's purpose."

So Chris, any data or testing,, and do standby your statement that the breather was not designed or intended to prevent seal failure.

IMHO, this is just band-aide for well known poor PCV design. Although the breather will relieve pressure, at some unknown pressure differential but no data on what happens to the seal after repeated back-pressure build-up and release. Downside is the breather has baffles and filter to trap oil (including emulsified oil), requires periodic cleaning, not easily inspected the interior baffles, and does not address the stock PVC tube and resevior that needs frequent inspection and cleaning to prevent clogging.

The best solution is to keep the clean air side free from obstruction using an oil/air separator or catch can. For less than the cost of the air breather alone, JEGS has an air/oil seperator ($69) that will catch the oil and moisture before it clogs the tube and resevior in the air intake, it is transparent and easily inspected at each fuel-up, while checking the oil level. It takes about 15 seconds to remove and dump the collected oil and moisture, and no need to clean the air intake or breather as most of the build-up stays in the separator container.

I have used it on 2012 Nox and it works great, filler cap and intake remains clear, and no worries about back pressure damaging the rear seal. It also reduces the oil and combustion by-products from entering the engine and carbon build-up on the intake valves and combustion chamber, which have plagued GDI engines for years.

https://www.jegs.com/i/Steeda/957/555-3714/10002/-1

 

[Copperhead]

Yeah, a clean side catch can is a reasonable option. Since the majority of problems revolve around water and such pooling and then freezing where the clean side enters the air intake plenum, using some sort of air / oil separator on the clean side is not a bad choice.

This is why, even though I now have a AC Delco FC219 check valve oil cap on my Nox, I am still toying around with getting the Elite Engineering solution.

http://www.eliteengineeringusa.com/clean-side-oil-separator/

Replaces the oil fill cap AND the clean side port to air intake. The "catch can" solution is integral to the cap. No need for anything additional. The ultimate killing more than one bird with a single stone solution.

 

[sydnesb]

Thanks for the link, definitely looks promising. The products description says it allows oil to return to the valve cover. I wonder how much it retains? I have though about using a descendant filter on the clean side. Although the product information talks about 90-95% of the oil is ingested through the dirty side for larger PCV systems and valves, in our case, the small orifice in the intake likely draws in much less than that based on the amounts of oil and water I have collected on the clean side. My estimate is 60/40. I do not see a lot of build-up in the crankcase or PCV during cold city driving, rather on the highway where the engine has fluctuating vacuum/pressures and moderate loads, blow-by is greatest at around 2k rpm. An Italian tune-up at operating temperature, and letting it warm up at idle, with high intake vacuum, is helpful in keeping the small intake orifice clear.

 

[Copperhead]

Not a lot of oil and such ever comes thru the clean side. Most oil from the PCV is going thru the internal PCV port into the intake manifold (but that is a totally different problem that calls for occasional intake / and intake valve cleaning). Most of the time, air is flowing from the air intake plenum to the valve cover. Only intermittently, like on a hard accel is there a reversal. During those reversals, the EE "catch' cap captures any oil and contaminates that might come thru and not allow them to go onto the intake plenum. When the reversal condition goes back to normal flow, whatever it caught is immediately allowed to flow back into the valve cover. So there really isn't a situation of needing any serious capacity to hold what it catches.

I live rural and deal with many lower speed highways with rolling hills, I like to use manual mode on the trans most of the time. Usually run in M5 to keep engine RPM's closer to where 90% of torque is available, which seems to be right around 2500 RPM. I do the same for the gravel roads I have to travel on, there I will use M4 or even M3 due to even slower speeds on gravel. This allows the engine to run as it should and also eliminates a heck of a lot of transmission "gear hunting" that goes on in rolling hills and can really eat away at transmission fluid life. And since the trans is not shifting every 1/2 mile for the next rolling hill while doing 55-60 mph, by using manual mode I also improve the mpg a little. And those shifts on hills, especially on cruise, tend to lead to those hard accel conditions that cause those reversals of the PCV flow mentioned above.

At least it all sounds good in theory!

 

[sydnesb]

I would agree about the clean side having little crankcase oil contamination, if Nox/Terrains had a normal PCV system, with a larger orifice and check valve, and not have the oil burning and blow-by problems. Attached is picture of my seperator after only 100 miles of driving on the highway during the cold months. Many owners have similar problems, especially as the miles are racked up. There is slight vacuum in the valve cover/crankcase at idle, which is the small orrifice in the intake doing its job. IF you block the cleanside momentarily, you can hear the front and rear seals whistling from crankcase vaccuum. That is how you can tell of the dirty side is blocked. Once the throttle body is opened up moderately, and speed increases, the small orifice flow is reduced and the majority of air pulled through the cleanside. This is where the design is different from other vehicles. They both work together to keep pressure to a minimum throughout the rpm range, and they hoped to get rid of another serviceable part, the check valve, which will cause seal failures when they fail in other vehicles. They did not expect to have such problems with the freezing, and excessive oil and blow-by. GM actually designed in a reservoir, or catch can in the intake plenum, but it was poorly designed, overfills and freezes as we all know.

After Chevrolet replaced my pistons and rings for free, and the rings seated, my blow-by and pressures were reduced by quite a bit in the crankcase. I get 1/4 as much oil and water in my seperator. For those who have to pay for the service or have not done so, I recommend the seperator option.

I follow the same line of thought on rolling hills, put into M5, keep the transmission from shifting and engine load to a minimum. Seems to help with the build-up on the cleanside. I loose some in mpg, because the downhill is not capitalizing on the fuel trim reduction when in overdrive.

 

[Copperhead]

Well the GM TSB on this stuff stated to check the air pressure at the clean side PCV port in the valve cover. They said to use a meter, but one can use a piece of paper. Disconnect the clean side hose from the port, start the motor, rev to 2000 RPM, place the paper up to the port. If it holds the paper, the air is flowing properly. If it will not hold it, then in all likelihood the PCV internally is blocked. If one can feel air coming out of the valve cover port, then no doubt whatsoever that things need fixed.... and fast.

But if one is checking the oil on a regular basis like they should, they should be able to detect an up tic in oil consumption indicating a possible PCV problem before it gets out of hand. Then do the above procedure and see what happens. Then if all this suggests PCV problem either remove the intake manifold and clean out the port or take to a shop and have them do it.

It requires some effort on the owner's part to stay on top of things. And those with the 2.4L just have to realize that it is going to take some vigilance on their part to stay on top of things. Most people just jump in and turn the key and ignore things till they blow up. It is amazing how many things can be caught early and cause far less grief if the individual puts forth just a little effort to check their vehicle on a daily basis. This is why commercial truck drivers do daily vehicle pre and post trip inspections and are always listening for a change in engine noise and similar. Just walking back and forth from teh truck, they are eyeballing things looking for oil on the ground, a tire that looks low, etc. Greatly reduces the problems and cost. Auto owners maybe don't need to be so anal about checking their personal vehicles, but they really should put forth more effort than most actually do, which is virtually none.

 

[sydnesb]

Couldn't agree more regarding being pro-active and conducting vehicle checks at every stop, not just at oil changes or before long trips. This was instilled in me by HS auto mechanics instructor, and again while in the service. I believe all of the services require vehicles checks prior to use to some degree. Even if it had been driven earlier that day. You likely was introduced to that as well while serving. I have only broken down on the road once in 35 years that needed a tow truck, and avoided many others by conducting safety and operational checks. In HS we actually re-built engines, transmissions, and hands-on diagnostics, and maintenance was a must. Afterwards, one of my mentors in Colorado Springs, was a commercial truck driver, turn lubrication specialist. He introduced me to synthetics and oil analysis. Many commercial drivers like yourself perform oil analysis to monitor and detect problems before they become catastrophic, costing money and downtime.

Before I bought the Nox, I read all kinds of accounts and complaints from owners about timing chain, rear seal, and oil consumption problems that failed on the road, and reported to NTSB and other organizations. In most cases it was caused by poor maintenance, and lack of checks. The most common was engine shutdown, failure, and the dealer finding they had less than two quarts of oil in the engine. They report that the oil life monitor said they had another 1000 miles left. The other is the driver will jump into the vehicle, during freezing conditions, and race off down the road or onto the highway, causing the rear seal problem. This is partly due to experts telling owners they no longer need to let the engine warm up due to modern technology and design. HO2 sensors and CAT may heat up quickly and achieve an environment friendly fuel ratio within a minute, but the oil is still thick and viscous, and in our case, emulsified oil/water mix is still frozen in the air plenum and PCV ports.

The PCV orifice can be remedied by removing the valve cover, poor a small amount of gum/varnish remover such as CRC, Sea Foam into the small head casting feeding the orifice, let it soak. An then use a small flexible wire to remove the carbon and varnish in the orifice. Much easier than removing the intake, and disconnecting all the lines, connectors, and high pressure fuel pump.

 

[JayTee2014]

The PCV orifice can be remedied by removing the valve cover, poor a small amount of gum/varnish remover such as CRC, Sea Foam into the small head casting feeding the orifice, let it soak. An then use a small flexible wire to remove the carbon and varnish in the orifice. Much easier than removing the intake, and disconnecting all the lines, connectors, and high pressure fuel pump.

Great idea. . . another member here also suggested this. For many members who aren't familiar with any of this kind of maintenance, it would really be useful if some pictures could be taken and posted regarding this. Where to aim the CRC cleaner. . . how and where to insert a "flexible wire", etc.
Otherwise. . . is a sound practice you state .. .

 

[Vernal1]

I just figured out how to fix the pcv problem! You Tube Video coming soon!

Here's a link to the video. Not sure why it's blurry, it was crystal clear when I loaded it to You Tube.

contact me for more information at: [email protected]

 

[sydnesb]

Great idea. . . another member here also suggested this. For many members who aren't familiar with any of this kind of maintenance, it would really be useful if some pictures could be taken and posted regarding this. Where to aim the CRC cleaner. . . how and where to insert a "flexible wire", etc.
Otherwise. . . is a sound practice you state .. .

Certainly will.

 

[Copperhead]

Likewise, CRC Intake Valve cleaner would be something to consider. I use that stuff already on a periodic basis to clean out intake deposits. It has a convenient spray straw on the can and using it like you suggest thru the internal PCV port just might be a killer idea. Thanks for bringing it up!

Surprised the guy in the video didn't do a catch can on the new PCV line. He was meticulous in every other way but totally dropped the ball on cleaning up the PCV.

 

[[email protected]]

Hi Chris, I was one of the members that contacted you about the valve cover breather in January. I noticed you joined the forum shortly afterwards. Below is synopsis of the conversation about this line of breathers.

1. Fact this breather is for racing applications per Chris and website.
2. Although CFM claims it has years of design and testing, FACT, they cannot produce any information or data per Chris.
3. Fact, Chris acknowledges the breather is for large displacement and boosted race engines, and admits these engines produce much higher crankcase pressures, than Gen 2 GMC and Chevy Ecotec I4 engines.
4. Fact, per Chris they have no information on flow rates, crack pressures, pressure differential on their breather or any engine application they recommend the breather for.
5. Fact, per Chris the breather is same for every application, except for crankcase fitting (threaded or 1/4 turn).
6. Fact, Chris claims this breather is a suitable solution for the crankcase pressure problems in the the Cadillac CTS-V, despite GM developing a vented cap specific for this vehicle.
7. Fact, when told about large potential customer base through these forums, I asked if he could give us some assurance and produce specs and data that this breather will prevent the rear seal failures, his response after several minutes of no response, "In no way can I guarantee that the breather will prevent a rear main seal failure as that is not it's purpose."

So Chris, any data or testing,, and do standby your statement that the breather was not designed or intended to prevent seal failure.

IMHO, this is just band-aide for well known poor PCV design. Although the breather will relieve pressure, at some unknown pressure differential but no data on what happens to the seal after repeated back-pressure build-up and release. Downside is the breather has baffles and filter to trap oil (including emulsified oil), requires periodic cleaning, not easily inspected the interior baffles, and does not address the stock PVC tube and resevior that needs frequent inspection and cleaning to prevent clogging.

The best solution is to keep the clean air side free from obstruction using an oil/air separator or catch can. For less than the cost of the air breather alone, JEGS has an air/oil seperator ($69) that will catch the oil and moisture before it clogs the tube and resevior in the air intake, it is transparent and easily inspected at each fuel-up, while checking the oil level. It takes about 15 seconds to remove and dump the collected oil and moisture, and no need to clean the air intake or breather as most of the build-up stays in the separator container.

I have used it on 2012 Nox and it works great, filler cap and intake remains clear, and no worries about back pressure damaging the rear seal. It also reduces the oil and combustion by-products from entering the engine and carbon build-up on the intake valves and combustion chamber, which have plagued GDI engines for years.

https://www.jegs.com/i/Steeda/957/555-3714/10002/-1

Regardless of the displacement, application, or use, EXCESSIVE crankcase pressure can have undesirable effects, which vary. Some vehicles see their dipsticks pushed up, others see oil being forced through the clean side PCV, and in extreme circumstances, engine seals can leak.

Anyone who's aware of these adverse effects and understands their relationship to excessive crankcase pressure will understand why it's important to alleviate/eliminate that pressure. Reducing that pressure will decrease the possibility of the adverse effects, ie, rear main seal leakage.

Our breather provides quite possibly the easiest way to do so, utilizing the largest port available, the oil fill. It's a pretty simple product and concept, you're the first person that requires uncritical data. Our product has been around for over a decade with thousands of happy customers, whether its a full blown race car or daily driven economy vehicle.

 

[JayTee2014]

Great idea. . . another member here also suggested this. For many members who aren't familiar with any of this kind of maintenance, it would really be useful if some pictures could be taken and posted regarding this. Where to aim the CRC cleaner. . . how and where to insert a "flexible wire", etc.
Otherwise. . . is a sound practice you state .. .

Certainly will.

Any pictures of this yet as mentioned?

 

[sydnesb]

Attached are basic instructions and pictures for cleaning the PCV port without removing the intake manifold. Let me know if this is helpful.