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Discussion Starter #1

^ does anyone know if this tool will work? i heard it is better than the half moon tool, but i cannot confirm if the full circle water pump holder will work.

Also, why am i reading that even with the water pump holder tool, people had their chain move, which caused the tensionor to tighten, and caused a whine when the water pump was in? isnt the tool supposed to hold the chain from spinning / moving ( to prevent slack which would cause the tensinor to tighen the slack which would lead to a tigher chain when the new pump is in which then leads to chain whine). i do not want to find out my chain is to tight and have to remove the crank sproket to retension the chain.

Has anyone done this job on the 2.4 ecotech in a terrain/equinox? any tips? did you have to drop the manifold or any other exhaust peice?
 

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^ does anyone know if this tool will work? i heard it is better than the half moon tool, but i cannot confirm if the full circle water pump holder will work.

Also, why am i reading that even with the water pump holder tool, people had their chain move, which caused the tensionor to tighten, and caused a whine when the water pump was in? isnt the tool supposed to hold the chain from spinning / moving ( to prevent slack which would cause the tensinor to tighen the slack which would lead to a tigher chain when the new pump is in which then leads to chain whine). i do not want to find out my chain is to tight and have to remove the crank sproket to retension the chain.

Has anyone done this job on the 2.4 ecotech in a terrain/equinox? any tips? did you have to drop the manifold or any other exhaust peice?
That is the one, on Amazon, that most people use.
There are several very good youtube videos to watch.
 

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I don't have this engine, but I just watched a couple of videos on it and it doesn't look too bad. You take the passenger-side wheel off, then the plastic shrouding inside the wheel well to get to one side of it (with the 4-bolt cover plate), then you at least loosen up the T-stat housing in the engine compartment to get a rigid coolant tube off the other end so you can pull out the pump. Don't forget to unscrew the Water Pump drain plug on the engine compartment side before you pull it out (to avoid coolant draining into your Timing Cover), and be extra careful to make sure you don't drop any bolts into the Timing Cover from the wheel-well side when re-installing. Might be a good idea to tightly stuff a (non-frayed or linted) rag into the cavity between the Timing Cover and the Pump so if one of the bolts falls it'll fall right there onto the rag. Fishing them out of the Timing Cover cavity sounds like a major headache you don't need!

In one video I saw, the guy just used the 4-bolt cover plate itself with a bolt long enough to reach the gear inside the recessed area to keep the gear in place. No tool used! It's really the long-enough bolt that you need because once you have that, any metal plate that spans that smallish hole will be good enough. The guy just spun the cover plate so that it spanned the hole while only partially blocking it. But he did say "don't try this at home". LOL! $40+ for a metal plate with holes seems ridiculous to me!

My question is: how real is the risk of that gear moving anyway? And even if it did ... why would that matter? You're not removing the chain and spinning the gears ... the chain and gears are staying intact, in relation to one another ... right? And a water pump doesn't care about the engine's timing ... it's just along for the ride. So why do you even need the tool?

Maybe somebody who's done this job will chime in and explain ...
 

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Discussion Starter #4 (Edited)
My question is: how real is the risk of that gear moving anyway? And even if it did ... why would that matter? You're not removing the chain and spinning the gears ... the chain and gears are staying intact, in relation to one another ... right? And a water pump doesn't care about the engine's timing ... it's just along for the ride. So why do you even need the tool?
if the "clocking" of the water pump/gear actually matters, that is really up for debate. I think the huge issue here is if the gear comes out of place, the tensioner will expand and tighten the chain when the gear is put back in place. This will cause a tight chain which = faster wear and even chain breakage. The method the guy did with the bolt is lazy and i gaurtee you the tensioner expanded and screwed up his chain tension anyways. He would of found out the hard way that his chain was tightened by his lazy method when he 1. started up his vehicle and heard a mysterious whine from the chain or two, he was driving down the highways and heard a "pop" (chain snap) "clink clunk clank clink" (valves hitting pistons). Another HUGE advantage of the full circle tool is you no longer run the risk of dropping a bolt into the timing cover. This issue is reported to happen often as the you are almost blind when putting the bolts to the waterpump/gear.

i read that some people still got chain whine with a new pump even after using the tool. One poster reported he thinks some people are using the tool wrong, if you do not tighten the tool down tightly to the sproket, there is sitll play, and the tensioner will take the slack out of that play/hence cause whine. The poster suggested making sure the tool is FIRMLY tightened before removing any of the sproket/pump bolts, this will ensure nothing moves and that their is no play/ prevents the tensioner from putting more tension on the chain. I am going to use the full circle tool and hope for the best.

I spent MANY hours obsessing over timing belt tension with my old honda. I honestly got the tension so perfect on that belt, it was a work of art. To make a long story short, you do not want to screw around with the factory tension on the chain unless you have the time and the whole timing cover off, and i say no thanks to that!
 

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if the "clocking" of the water pump/gear actually matters, that is really up for debate. I think the huge issue here is if the gear comes out of place, the tensioner will expand and tighten the chain when the gear is put back in place. This will cause a tight chain which = faster wear and even chain breakage. The method the guy did with the bolt is lazy and i gaurtee you the tensioner expanded and screwed up his chain tension anyways. He would of found out the hard way that his chain was tightened by his lazy method when he 1. started up his vehicle and heard a mysterious whine from the chain or two, he was driving down the highways and heard a "pop" (chain snap) "clink clunk clank clink" (valves hitting pistons). Another HUGE advantage of the full circle tool is you no longer run the risk of dropping a bolt into the timing cover. This issue is reported to happen often as the you are almost blind when putting the bolts to the waterpump/gear.

i read that some people still got chain whine with a new pump even after using the tool. One poster reported he thinks some people are using the tool wrong, if you do not tighten the tool down tightly to the sproket, there is sitll play, and the tensioner will take the slack out of that play/hence cause whine. The poster suggested making sure the tool is FIRMLY tightened before removing any of the sproket/pump bolts, this will ensure nothing moves and that their is no play/ prevents the tensioner from putting more tension on the chain. I am going to use the full circle tool and hope for the best.

I spent MANY hours obsessing over timing belt tension with my old honda. I honestly got the tension so perfect on that belt, it was a work of art. To make a long story short, you do not want to screw around with the factory tension on the chain unless you have the time and the whole timing cover off, and i say no thanks to that!
Go with the round OTC tool.
Read the first 20 reviews in the link of your first Amazon post, that should make up your mind.

In my more than 10 years with Snap-on, I sold at least 100 of the round OTC tool.
Book time for that repair is 4.9 flat rate hours.
 

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if the "clocking" of the water pump/gear actually matters, that is really up for debate. I think the huge issue here is if the gear comes out of place, the tensioner will expand and tighten the chain when the gear is put back in place.
So the tool is preventing the gear from shifting laterally (?) when the pump is removed (because the chain has tension on the gear with the water pump installed)? I've yet to see a video showing the pump being removed with a camera angle on the side where the tool is installed (to see what remains after the pump disappears). All I've seen is the pulley on the end of the pump with the pump outside the vehicle on a bench.

I'll have to look in my manuals, I guess.
 

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Discussion Starter #7 (Edited)
So the tool is preventing the gear from shifting laterally (?) when the pump is removed (because the chain has tension on the gear with the water pump installed)? I've yet to see a video showing the pump being removed with a camera angle on the side where the tool is installed (to see what remains after the pump disappears). All I've seen is the pulley on the end of the pump with the pump outside the vehicle on a bench.

I'll have to look in my manuals, I guess.
yes. the tool bolts onto the gear and then bolts onto to the timing cover through the water pump/timing cover holes. This helps to hold gear in it's natural position. when the pump is removed the gear is suspended by the tool and only the tool. If there is any play and the tensioner moves, the tensionr tightens and it will need to be replaced or adjusted.

colt does your manual say anything about exhaust components needing to be removed so there is enough wiggle room to get the old pump out from the back/top? I read on youtube that someone had to drop the manifold on a 2.4 equinox to get the pump out, not sure how reliable this is, but i hope to god this is not true. I think one could undo the passenger side engine mount and lift the engine a bit for extra clearance. Let me know, i will post my experience with this, just ordered parts/tools so that i can do this job. No one has come here and posted their findings on doing this job on a 2010+terrain/equinox 2.4, i will post my finding to help support future members/those tackling this job. It is a shame that no one has shared this info in detail/experience. .
 

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Discussion Starter #8
found a video on the terrain, this is the second reference i ve found stating the exhaust needs to be removed. Either manifold or cat needs to come off, just looked at the vehicle myself. there is no clearance in the back. just canceled my order for the tool and parts. I m not dropping an exhaust to get to the pump out. Again, the 2.4 proves to be horrible. gm fuked the 2.4 with the pcv system, garbage water pump placement, weak tranny. What else now?

 

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colt does your manual say anything about exhaust components needing to be removed so there is enough wiggle room to get the old pump out from the back/top? I read on youtube that someone had to drop the manifold on a 2.4 equinox to get the pump out, not sure how reliable this is, but i hope to god this is not true. I think one could undo the passenger side engine mount and lift the engine a bit for extra clearance. Let me know, i will post my experience with this, just ordered parts/tools so that i can do this job. No one has come here and posted their findings on doing this job on a 2010+terrain/equinox 2.4, i will post my finding to help support future members/those tackling this job. It is a shame that no one has shared this info in detail/experience. .
My manual is for the 2011, but it doesn’t say anything about removing the exhaust manifold. I saw that same video where the guy had the whole manifold lying on the floor with the cat attached, but I also saw another where the guy just detached the T-Stat housing and a coolant pipe going to the pump (but maybe that's behind the manifold?). Isn't all this work being done on the backside/firewall side of the engine ... and isn't the exhaust manifold/cat coming off the front/radiator side on the 2.4L engine?

At the 3:00 mark, this guy (Hunto) shows where the T-Stat and coolant pipe were removed (but he's got the engine removed, too ... LOL!)

Or this guy ... (check out 9:00 - 9:20 when he's pulling out the T-Stat housing and it appears you can see what might be the Cat/Exhaust in the back?) Also, at 13:03 he seems to say he just "snugs it down" (the bolts on the tool)?



My 2011 2.4L LAF procedure.
623AB84B-8FA6-4C1A-ADC9-DB02BEF26C24.jpeg
 
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For what it's worth my 2014 GM Repair Manual tells you to remove the catalytic converter first.
Book 2 Chapter 9 Page 808
 
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Adidas,

Can you upload a picture of the engine side? Is this thing “caged in” by the exhaust/Cat?
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Adidas,

Can you upload a picture of the engine side? Is this thing “caged in” by the exhaust/Cat?
honestly man, the back side of the engine is so tight you cannot see anything. i imagine the cat and/or the manifold needs to be dropped to gain access. I m debating on if should attempt this or not. Main issue is I work on my vehicle on the side of the road, i do not have a driveway. The plus is, i have a have a GREAT tool set. No many snap on, but alot of old school USA craftsman tools that are well made and good enough for any job.

if i m going to attempt this i may want to consider having an exhaust manifold to block gasket, manifold to cat gasket and cat to pipe gasket. Replacement bolts for all connections and for manifold.
Anything else anyone could thing of that i may want to have on hand for such a job?
 

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My manual for a 2013 2.4L also says to remove the cat converter like Rednox says. Also, the water pump holding tool supports the sprocket and chain during water pump service. The tool must be used or the balance shaft must be re-timed.
 

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A torque wrench might be handy as some of the bolts are torque to stretch.
If you decide to go ahead with the repair I will get you the torque specs.
 

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I looked up the catalytic converter in my 2011 Manual (which is Helm, BTW), and I can see (now) how it would be in the way on the firewall side. Not sure why it's not called out in the Water Pump removal procedure, but there are plenty of errors in these Helm manuals ... for sure.
 

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The manual I use is Alldata for 2013 Equinox.
I'm thinking of getting a subscription for my son's 2008 Malibu. Is that the "diy" version you use ... and if so ... does it have any "loopholes" in information compared to a printed manual? I've always bought the Helm manuals for my cars (each bought new), but my Dad bought this Malibu used, my son has it now, it's got about 90,000 miles on it, and I just can't force myself to pay Helm $300 for the printed manual (apparently the only option there)
 

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I'm thinking of getting a subscription for my son's 2008 Malibu. Is that the "diy" version you use ... and if so ... does it have any "loopholes" in information compared to a printed manual? I've always bought the Helm manuals for my cars (each bought new), but my Dad bought this Malibu used, my son has it now, it's got about 90,000 miles on it, and I just can't force myself to pay Helm $300 for the printed manual (apparently the only option there)
Every now and then I see a GM Repair Manual on ebay, check there for other options.
That is where I sell my old manuals from Helm when I trade cars.
 
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Colt, the Helms manuals are usually factory reprints and are probably the best literature us DIY'ers can get.They have issues too as I used to buy them before they became gold. Alldata DIY is way better than the repair books from the auto parts stores and are close to the Helms manuals. A real good thing they have is the electrical diagrams for all the systems on the vehicles. One down side IMO is that they tend to explain things assuming you have some mechanical/technical knowledge. For ex: a procedure may say remove XXXX but it doesn't go into how to remove XXXX. They also give labor rates and prices on parts but I don't know how accurate that is. They sometimes tell what tools to use for specialty stuff like that water pump procedure. They do give all the TSB's as well. Overall, good info for the cost of 29.95 a year or 39.95 for 5 years vs 300-500 dollars. Sometimes you can find them on Ebay like Rednox said.
 
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