[Terr4ined]

After removing the stock breather box to do a spark plug job and watching the goo roll out of it and realizing there's no real way to keep this thing clean... I decide it was catch can time and figured I might as well add a K&N and ditch the whole stock intake assembly anyways. Soooo, here's a couple of pics making the grocery getting kid hauler more RACECAR. lol

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[JayTee2014]

Hi . ..

So that's a 4 cylinder engine. . . where do the hoses you ran to the catch can go to and come from?

I see one looks like it comes from the valve cover area. .. where is the other hose connected to near the throttle body?

 

[wbw]

I had a catch can on my turbo Veloster. There was a line going from the PCV back into the intake. Catch can got inserted between the PCV and intake.

 

[Terr4ined]

The dirty hose comes from the crank case breather that spits the wonderful sludge into the can. Clean hose goes to inlet on K&N charge pipe. I can take more pics when the old lady brings it home from the office.


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[JayTee2014]

The dirty hose comes from the crank case breather that spits the wonderful sludge into the can. Clean hose goes to inlet on K&N charge pipe. I can take more pics when the old lady brings it home from the office.


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I was thinking that you did that since the 4 cylinder purportedly also has some sort of internal PCV channel.

That would take care of getting the "dirty" line to the catch can. But in order for it to really work, there has to be a fresh, filtered air supply into the crankcase from somewhere. If the hoses are just sucking crankcase vapors out and into the Catch Can via the hose from the catch can to the K&N filter base. . . where is the crankcase getting it's filtered fresh air from?

The hose that was "spitting oi" may have been the fresh air inlet.

 

[Terr4ined]

I was thinking that you did that since the 4 cylinder purportedly also has some sort of internal PCV channel.

That would take care of getting the "dirty" line to the catch can. But in order for it to really work, there has to be a fresh, filtered air supply into the crankcase from somewhere. If the hoses are just sucking crankcase vapors out and into the Catch Can via the hose from the catch can to the K&N filter base. . . where is the crankcase getting it's filtered fresh air from?

The hose that was "spitting oi" may have been the fresh air inlet.

Judging from the amount of sludge that poured out of the stock baffled box that the stock hose from the crank case was initially connected to I'm gonna say it was definitely not an inlet. All that sludge had to move upstream and fill the stock box. Now all that sludge is being collected in the can and staying out of the intake manifold. Cleaned the throttle body and all the carbon off before putting this stuff in and it's still squeaky clean.


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[Terr4ined]

Judging from the amount of sludge that poured out of the stock baffled box that the stock hose from the crank case was initially connected to I'm gonna say it was definitely not an inlet. All that sludge had to move upstream and fill the stock box. Now all that sludge is being collected in the can and staying out of the intake manifold. Cleaned the throttle body and all the carbon off before putting this stuff in and it's still squeaky clean.

If I didn't put the catch can inline it would just be dumping all that sludge directly into my K&N charge pipe and throttle body.

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[JayTee2014]

Judging from the amount of sludge that poured out of the stock baffled box that the stock hose from the crank case was initially connected to I'm gonna say it was definitely not an inlet. All that sludge had to move upstream and fill the stock box. Now all that sludge is being collected in the can and staying out of the intake manifold. Cleaned the throttle body and all the carbon off before putting this stuff in and it's still squeaky clean.

Trying to help you make sure that you aren't masking a serious problem here.

I SEE you already replaced a crankshaft seal. Odds are. . . you have a blocked internal PCV orifice.

The way a PCV system has to work on any engine is a flow of filtered air is routed into the crankcase and a draw of vapor laden air back into the intake. . . whether it be the base of a carburetor or throttle body, OR internal port into the intake manifold. The 2.4L engine has the later.

The hose that you see that is "spitting", is the fresh air INLET to the crankcase ventilation system. What can and does happen in the 2.4L engine is that the PCV design is internal as I mentioned and has a pathway into the intake manifold to draw air FROM the hose you just routed to the catch can. The hose is likely "spitting" because the internal orifice to the intake manifold may be partially or fully clogged. When that happens, pressure builds up in the crankcase and blows oil and vapors in the opposite direction and now OUT of the fresh air intake hose and INTO the air cleaner housing. That would cause the oily mess you found. Even under normal conditions, a certain amount of oil vapor will flow out of the intake hose. This may occur under decelleration , especially when going down hills/mountains for an few miles. Or, under hard acceleration and then suddenly letting off of the gas pedal, causing momentary pressure in the crankcase and back flow into the PCV system.

See the attached PDF Service Bulletin and pictures in it as well as read the complete text. IT talks about "cold weather" but also carbon and sludge build possibly blocking the internal PCV orifice.

You might check under the engine at the rear and front crankshaft seals to see it they are leaking oil. If so, pressure is building up in the crankcase and has blown out the seals.

That hose is supposed to allow fresh air INTO the crankcase. . . not out FROM the crankcase.

The question still is. . . where is the crankcase now getting it's flow of fresh , filtered air into it?


Service Bulletin Partial Statement:

CONDITION
Certain 2010-2013 Buick LaCrosse; 2011-2013 Buick Regal; 2012-2013 Buick Verano; 2011-2013 Chevrolet Captiva; 2010-2014 Chevrolet Equinox; 2013 Chevrolet Mailbu; 2012-2013 Chevrolet Orlando; 2010-2013 GMC Terrain vehicles equipped with a 2.4L engine (LAF, LEA or LUK) that have experienced high oil consumption may also experience a frozen and/or plugged PCV (positive crankcase ventilation) system during cold weather operation. This condition may increase crankcase pressure leading to a rear crankshaft seal oil leak. If the oil leak is ignored or not noticed, an engine clatter noise may be noticeable and/or the engine pressure warning light may illuminate. If this condition is not corrected, continued driving with engine noise and/or the engine oil pressure light illuminated may damage the engine.

 

[Terr4ined]

Thanks for the read. In any event. This is definitely helping until I can find the time to remove the intake manifold and clean this precious potentially clogged orifice of doom.


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[JayTee2014]

Thanks for the read. In any event. This is definitely helping until I can find the time to remove the intake manifold and clean this precious potentially clogged orifice of doom.


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You're welcome.

In the meantime, you could pick up a cheap manometer from somewhere like Harbor Freight and see if you are getting pressure or vacuum. Then you would know if the orifice is blocked. And, if pressure exists in the crankcase, the more engine seals may be damaged and start to leak.

Also, the catch can may fill up fairly quickly.

 

[Terr4ined]

Just out of curiosity... If the orifice isn't blocked. What would be some other reasons why this sludge would be collecting? I've had catch cans on everything from turbo vw's, ls1 trans ams and built Honda b-series engines. this sludge reminds me very much of what I'd collect on other engines.


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[Terr4ined]

All the other seals seem to be leak free so far. I've recently taken over maintenance of this car for about the last 20k miles or so. My girls ex wasn't exactly the handy type so things were pretty neglected. First oil change I did the filter was collapsed in on itself and was encased in gunk which leads me to believe he probably never bothered with removing the filter due to not having the right socket for that ridiculous ecotec plastic housing.


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[JayTee2014]

Ahh . .. I see. Well, that could explain why the internal PCV passage may be clogged with sludge and deposits. If the oil filter was never changed, then it probably circulated gunk all over inside the engine.

It would probably take some time to see any new oil leaks at the seals, but that doesn't mean they aren't being damaged.

You asked " . . .. this sludge reminds me very much of what I'd collect on other engines. " Sludge is sludge. I have a catch can on my Equinox 3.6L V6 since new and only had 75 miles on it. Works very well.

At any rate . . . for the PCV system to be restored to proper operation on that 2.4L engine, a fresh filtered air flow must be provided into the crank case. While the catch can you installed will collect the "spitting" out of the normal air intake hose, it isn't doing the engine any real long term good . . . and some of the vapors may start finding their way into the throttle body you just cleaned.

 

[rednox301]

More info available below on link to TechLink, these pictures are graphic.
Be sure to read the paragraph on pistons at the bottom of the article.


http://sandyblogs.com/techlink/?p=6498

 

[hipchecker]

Trying to help you make sure that you aren't masking a serious problem here.

I SEE you already replaced a crankshaft seal. Odds are. . . you have a blocked internal PCV orifice.

The way a PCV system has to work on any engine is a flow of filtered air is routed into the crankcase and a draw of vapor laden air back into the intake. . . whether it be the base of a carburetor or throttle body, OR internal port into the intake manifold. The 2.4L engine has the later.

The hose that you see that is "spitting", is the fresh air INLET to the crankcase ventilation system. What can and does happen in the 2.4L engine is that the PCV design is internal as I mentioned and has a pathway into the intake manifold to draw air FROM the hose you just routed to the catch can. The hose is likely "spitting" because the internal orifice to the intake manifold may be partially or fully clogged. When that happens, pressure builds up in the crankcase and blows oil and vapors in the opposite direction and now OUT of the fresh air intake hose and INTO the air cleaner housing. That would cause the oily mess you found. Even under normal conditions, a certain amount of oil vapor will flow out of the intake hose. This may occur under decelleration , especially when going down hills/mountains for an few miles. Or, under hard acceleration and then suddenly letting off of the gas pedal, causing momentary pressure in the crankcase and back flow into the PCV system.

See the attached PDF Service Bulletin and pictures in it as well as read the complete text. IT talks about "cold weather" but also carbon and sludge build possibly blocking the internal PCV orifice.

You might check under the engine at the rear and front crankshaft seals to see it they are leaking oil. If so, pressure is building up in the crankcase and has blown out the seals.

That hose is supposed to allow fresh air INTO the crankcase. . . not out FROM the crankcase.

The question still is. . . where is the crankcase now getting it's flow of fresh , filtered air into it?


Service Bulletin Partial Statement:

CONDITION
Certain 2010-2013 Buick LaCrosse; 2011-2013 Buick Regal; 2012-2013 Buick Verano; 2011-2013 Chevrolet Captiva; 2010-2014 Chevrolet Equinox; 2013 Chevrolet Mailbu; 2012-2013 Chevrolet Orlando; 2010-2013 GMC Terrain vehicles equipped with a 2.4L engine (LAF, LEA or LUK) that have experienced high oil consumption may also experience a frozen and/or plugged PCV (positive crankcase ventilation) system during cold weather operation. This condition may increase crankcase pressure leading to a rear crankshaft seal oil leak. If the oil leak is ignored or not noticed, an engine clatter noise may be noticeable and/or the engine pressure warning light may illuminate. If this condition is not corrected, continued driving with engine noise and/or the engine oil pressure light illuminated may damage the engine.

Wow you really seem to know your stuff! I just posted about sludge in the crankcase on my 2013 terrain. I'm hoping you made be able to hep me, error code P0411. Thanks!!

 

[hipchecker]

Does any of this have to do with sludge forming in a non-modified engine? I'm having an issue in my 2013 terrain.