Yeah, Colt Hero, I know you're happy to see this debate. Makes your Friday, huh? :cheers:
Hyperboles make it difficult to have logical discussions. If I wanted to get technical:
Colt Hero said:
That's primarily what I'm purchasing when I buy a new vehicle: RELIABILITY (and for the next 4 years, *at least*). And if I'm making it sound "easy" that's because it *should* be (for them). We're talking about mega-sized companies here, with endless resources including very smart (and experienced) people, very advanced manufacturing technologies, etc. And they've been doing it for 100 years!! We're also talking about adapting an existing technology here. It's primarily an engine design 'tweak'. It's not like this is the Jetsons. It's still an internal combustion engine with four wheels on the ground.
1) Didn't you rip GM in an earlier thread for taking out a Federal bailout to fend of bankruptcy? This isn't the 70's. GM doesn't have "endless resources".
2) Prior to the 2010's, there were absolutely
zero experience with gasoline direct injection technology at GM. Or am I mistaken?
3) GM is a low budget brand and they try to provide high technology at cheap prices.
This challenge is far more complicated than the Jetsons. If you wouldn't mind forking over $100k for an Equinox, I'm sure GM can design it to be super reliable for 4 years.
Colt Hero said:
Heck, to put this in even more perspective, I would say that implementing DI technology isn't even close to what Toyota did *15 years ago* with the introduction of the Prius. Now THAT was an eye-opening achievement. Toyota designed and built that completely new technology, and got it to market well ahead of anybody else, in a nearly flawless manner! Today they make several popular and successful models of the Prius, while GM flounders (for one reason or another) with the Volt. Seems to be a trend here, no?
I don't want to go off point with this, so I'll only briefly discuss this. These were found with a simple Google search:
1) The first generation Prius had major design flaws "including poor performance in both hot climates and high altitudes".
2) Some additional troubles: "Steering box issue, HC absorber Cat sticking valve, and the HV battery sealing" along with "throttle sensor has been an issue but there is a member servicing them."
3) I'm not gonna waste any time looking further into the Prius. Quite simply, you and I don't own a Prius, so we have no idea the reliability of them. Apparently you were awed by the "new" technology Toyota was offering. However, still true today as it was then, the Prius is not cost competitive to gasoline vehicles. The Chevy Volt has this same cost competitive problem. From the first Prius out in 1997 to the end of its generation in 2004, there were only 41,300 Prius sold in the US. GM probably sells 40k Equinox and Terrains in about two months. I wouldn't call the Prius a "success", but I still compliment Toyota's effort. And I also commend GM's effort with the Volt. I prefer the Volt's approach to using plugged in electricity first, then revert to gasoline to generate electricity for longer trips rather than the 1st generation Prius which would only use the battery to capture gradual deceleration energy (can't be plugged in). As a matter of fact, some Prius owners took to hacking their ECM to have it function more like how the Volt is designed.
I like electric cars, but petroleum energy is cheap. I like my $$$ better. I've been eyeing Tesla, but they are far from cheap!
Colt Hero said:
I consider myself a de-facto mechanic. I'm very comfortable doing what I do. I don't think it's reckless in the least. We're talking about new vehicles here. It's not like I'm driving the car 15,000 miles and never opening the hood! I change my synthetic oil every 5,000 miles. At that point, I'm looking around the engine compartment for anything amiss. I can see the fluid levels in the tanks. I can see if anything's leaking. I can smell burning oil or coolant. And then in the interim, the vehicle is telling me what might be going wrong via its gauges, sounds, or driveability. For someone who doesn't maintain their own vehicle, and doesn't have a sense for the kinds of problems automobiles develop over time, maybe they need to be more vigilant and continuously pull those dipsticks and caps.
And with regard to the Owner's Manual - I have to admit that I rarely "read" it. It's so high-level that it's almost worthless beyond such things as fluid and filter types. Yeah, there's the occasional discovery of some feature you didn't know your vehicle had, but by-and-large, it's a fairly worthless book. I only *refer* to it (maybe) once, then it goes into the drawer, probably never to be seen again. But tonight I'm going to read what it says about oil changes and monitoring the oil level on my Nox. I can't wait ...
You certainly seem to know your way around the engine which is why it's surprising to me that you won't inspect it more frequently than just at oil changes. At the gas station, it literally takes less than a minute to pop your hood and read the oil level on the dipstick! And then take a glimpse around the engine bay. Do this while the nozzle is fueling up the tank so it really doesn't take any additional time from your day. I don't understand why you're
refusing to do this?
I do agree with you - any brand new vehicle should be trouble-free for the first few years. Everyone agrees with you about this. Even GM does too! This is not where my disagreement is with you, Colt Hero.
Let me try this analogy:
A person buys a stock and after 5 years, it blooms and returns 100 times the initial investment. This happens quite often in today's world. Does this mean the next stock the person buys should return 100 times in the next 5 years? The common saying is: "Past performance is not a indicator of future risk."
Colt Hero, just because the previous brand new cars you've bought before were trouble-free does not mean your next one will be.
GM says when they're selling a brand new vehicle to you, they will guarantee:
1) Every non-wear item to be in good working condition for 36k miles or 36 months.
2) Critical powertrain items to be in good working condition for 100k miles or 60 months.
Any premature failure will be covered by GM only within these timeframes. Any earlier damage/excessive wear that spoils the vehicle beyond these timeframes are simply not covered by GM. Colt Hero, you can expect your car to last 200k miles, but it's not what GM is selling.
Simply: there is no oil level indicator for the Equinox and Terrain. The oil level can drop below minimum level in less than 5k miles. This low level operation can cause premature wear and significantly shorten the engine lifespan. GM will attempt to keep it running sufficiently past 100k miles or 60 months. Then it's dumped on to you.
My disagreement is simply: every owner should check the engine vitals at every fuel fill up. If I noticed oil consumption (perhaps lost 1/2 quart after 500 miles), I'll be booking an appointment with a dealership to get it fixed before any engine damage happens. So after the repair, my engine has a better chance at a longer lifespan than the others' engines who were kept running while they were 2 quarts low or whatever.