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Discussion Starter #1
My 2010 is having the dreaded timing chain issue, but with 130k miles, I am past warranty, so doing on my own. Not willing to spend the shop money on this after having had the piston issues as well as a tranny replacement at 80k miles on this POS. As I will be near the water pump, would you recommend replacement at this point? I am not sure how long they tend to last, but would hate to have it go out shortly after completing this job. Pros/Cons? Thanks for feedback.
 

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Of course you should do it. Not that expensive, and as you say, you don't want to go "inside" the engine again later.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Does anyone know if the special coverage on these 2.4 for the oil consumption issue (#14159) was to include the timing chain in addition to the pistons? When I had it in previously, they only completed work on the pistons.....thanks.
 

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Register your vehicle at MyGM.com and you will get GM's answer. But, I think that the timing chain also had the extended warranty. but since your was probably not bad - at the time, they didn't repair it.
 

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Register your vehicle at MyGM.com and you will get GM's answer. But, I think that the timing chain also had the extended warranty. but since your was probably not bad - at the time, they didn't repair it.
Except you now need to register at MyChevrolet.com .. . MyGMC.com. . etc. They are now brand specific.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
I had registered it and was in contact with GM. They are not willing to do anything as I am slightly over the mileage. Hard pill to swallow having previously reported engine rattling and this engine being well known for this issue. Options are to push it over a cliff or do it myself. Since I am not fond of walking everywhere, I better get going.......

I would appreciate any direction on the items I should replace while doing so. I am thinking the timing chain kit (chain, tensioner, guides (3), oil nozzle), balance shaft kit (chain, sprocket (2), tensioner, guides (3), crank), timing chain sprocket, water pump sprocket, water pump (since I am in there), valve cover gasket and timing cover gasket. Might any of this be overkill and/or am I missing anything? Likely going with Cloyes since they have posted good videos on this. Thanks again!
 

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Discussion Starter #7
As an update, I have finally had time to tear it down. The black guide that many others have posted on line about was broken and the chain was noticeably loose. Both chains still in one piece, so will start the replacement parts soon. Stuck at getting the water pump off at this point, but the rest of the procedure looks pretty straight forward. Ohh- and the upper bolt for that black guide must have been damaged as others have noted.....cannot get a socket on it, so will need to work on removing it as well.



First pic shows chain slack, second you can see the black guide with the lower part absent.
 

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So no chain failure, but once again we’re left wondering ... was it low oil pressure that caused the Tensioners to back off (if that’s even possible - you’d think they’d only go in one direction their entire life ... out)? If the Tensioners backed off, that would’ve caused the guides to back off, which would’ve caused the chain to “slacken”, which would’ve caused it to jump, which would’ve thrown the famous codes. Or did the chain just “stretch”, as some have claimed?

But why did *that* chain guide fracture? I’ve seen some videos where it shattered at the top. Yours broke off at the bottom. That’s a fixed guide, right? Bolted at top and bottom, right? Did friction from lack of oil cause the plastic to heat up and shatter at a weak point? Does the plastic show any signs of melting, or did it just snap off cleanly?

Maybe the whole problem is a defective guide that just shatters due to long-term exposure to vibration?
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Not certain what went wrong first, but my first issue to appear was the Solenoid. I routinely change my own oil as I am not trusting of others to do things correctly and did not notice a difference at the time I changed it (along with the solenoids). I had the Solenoid code, replaced both the intake and exhaust solenoids and the code went away and it ran better - for a short time......like a few days. Then it ran terrible and threw numerous codes.



Below is a pic of the solenoid when I first replaced it. I had the particles that others have mentioned, now thinking the black particles are the guide that was broken and the silver particles likely from the top guide bolt and/or the inside of the cover (pic below) where the chain must have started hitting. I originally thought the particles might have been when I had the recall piston issue done a while back, but now thinking not.


I am wondering if something in this design goes bad, like the chain stretching (if possible), the tensioner malfunctioning, etc., resulting in the chain starting to chew the black guide and eventually snapping it. Whatever it is, I am finding out it was quite common in this particular engine. Wish mine would have gone sooner so that I may have gotten the warranty to help with it, as GM would do nothing to assist on this one.
 

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Enoob:

So you think you never ran low on oil with your engine? How often were you changing your oil, and were you measuring what came out each time (or noticing whether the amount looked about right). I change my own oil too, and I don't measure what comes out unless I know I have a problem, but what I *do* do is notice how high the oil gets in my oil collection pan. I can tell when there's a problem.

The thinking is that this problem starts with low oil condition.

How about *this* (new) theory: One of the bolts holding the fixed Guide gets VERY hot (for some reason), leading to the fracture of the Guide at that bolt. Could the bolt be getting hot on its back/threaded side? Or could the bolt actually be backing itself out? How long are those fixed Guide mounting bolts? Maybe the Guide plastic just breaks due to the tension of the torqued bolt together with the heat of the metal it is compressed against?

Could you post more pictures of that Guide showing the edges where the chain contacts it (together with the new Guide for comparison ... if you haven't already installed the new one)? Looking at your Guide picture (with the 5 downward-pointing triangles as a reference): Is it the triangle "tip" (bottom) edge that contacts the chain (because it looks kind of irregular with two half-moon indentations), or is the the triangle "base" edge?
 

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Discussion Starter #11
I do not believe I have ever ran low on oil. I probably changed more often than needed, as I went by the older school rule of thumb of every 3k miles. As I change my own and dump the old oil into an old 5qt jug, I have never noticed running low. Not sure the cause of the issue with this particular engine, but since it is so prevalent, it appears to be a design issue to me.


I noticed in my new parts that they have "redesigned" several of the components (top of my head thinking the oil nasal, tensioner, upper guide bolt). Several pics attached that might answer your question......interestingly enough, the old guide was Cloyes brand. I bought the car with about 40k miles and have only had the engine worked on by a dealership. Not sure if they use Cloyes brand products, but I find that really odd. Also would not think that someone would have had anyone other than a dealer work on it before my purchase as it was within warranty.



I am slowly working on it due to time constraints, but have one question......I have the balance chain and timing chain back on. I noticed the balance shaft sprocket that was at about the 12 o'clock position when I installed the chain, is now at about the 3 o'clock position. It moved some when I was working on getting the timing chain on. All the indicator points are still at the appropriate markings for the chain, but wondering if it is critical to still have it at the 12 o'clock position? I am not sure that the balance chain has to run in sync with the timing chain (showing my lack of engine knowledge)? I need to know if I must remove the timing chain and get the balance shaft sprocket back up to the 12 o'clock position and resume from there.
 

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Make sure you're timing marks are EXACTLY right and lined up before you close up the engine. There are small differences, for example GM has a first and second design balance chain for the 2.4L. Check out the youtube video in the link below. There are a few other videos for you to watch, do a search.

 

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Discussion Starter #13
Thanks, that was one of the main videos that I was using. I have all my marks lined up and see conflicting info on whether I should rotate the engine by hand to ensure that I have no issues (like valves hitting). Cloyes video says not advised to rotate by hand and this one states to do so to check for any issues. I am more inclined to want to to help ensure things are correct. Suggestions? Thank you.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Followup - I did complete the project finally a while back. As a novice at this type of project, I was happy to have the engine fire up and it seems to be running well now for close to 1000 miles. I ended up spending around $500 in parts which included the timing chain, balance chain, all guides, oil nasal, guide bolt, tensioners, water pump, thermostat, gaskets, plugs etc. The original estimate I received at a local dealership was around $2200 for the chains and broken guide.


Thanks for the feedback on my questions as I went along as it helped out greatly. Hopefully the repair will last a while.....
 

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Good job Enoob!
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Well.......another issue. After a few thousand miles, I had a light come on, had it read and I believe it reflected timing over advanced (similar wording, but I forget the exact). When I read the code and reset it, it did not reappear. Shortly after that, it started running rough (actually stalled) to the point that I parked it fairly quickly. When installing the chain, I questioned whether the tensioner activated like it should as one video indicated you hear a snap, but I never could her that, but the chain appeared fairly snug. So I was thinking that the issue might be the chain having slipped causing the issue.



I proceeded to remove the cover again fearing the worst, but was surprised that it appeared the original markings lined up as they initially did when I repaired it. It took a few rotations to get them there, but as observed in the photos, they do. There did appear to be a little more slack in the chain during different points of the rotation, but not sure if that is to be expected, or if it should be snug all the time. So that makes me wonder a few things, such as where do I start. All the guides looked fine and no other apparent noticeable issues.



If thing are still lining up per the markings, why would I get a code regarding the over advanced issue? And as the marks are still lining up, should I be concerned about the tensioner and whether it activated properly? I put what I thought was a decent amount of pressure on it to get it to release and was afraid to put to much on it. The last thing I can think of is if I did not have things at top dead center. If this looks good, do I simply button back up and assume an entirely different issue? Appreciate any thoughts.
 

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It may have to do with the cam phasers themselves.
The sprockets on the end of the cam shafts are a muti part assembly. The cam shaft actuator solenoids route oil flow to these to vary the actual cam shaft timing. Or it could simply be the actuator solenoids. Without the code you have difficult to say.
I've read that the phasers can stick, bind, or not return to where they should in position.
This may be the case. I see a lot of varnish on the cam shaft area in your pictures.
If the problem goes away, and then comes back, or doesn't go away, it may require replacing the sprocket/phasers on both cam shafts.

Just a guess. . ..
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Update - things continue to run smoothly. No codes or issues after 1500 miles plus. I am guessing that the particles on the screens impacted the oil flow to the cam phasers impacting the timing.
 
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