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The "problem" that I see with electric vehicles is the price gouging that people see when purchasing electricity away from their home. While it should be cheaper when "fueling up" on the road, is is far from cheaper. It makes electric vehicles more expensive per mile driven than a gas powered vehicle.
Following along on the Bolt EV Forum the last couple of years now, I don't get the sense that Bolt owners are getting gouged purchasing electricity away from home. Yes, the cost is a LOT higher than purchasing electricity at home (at least - for most people), and from that standpoint it might be seen as "gouging", but I'm fairly certain these on-the-road Charging Rates work out to "on par with gas prices" (i.e.: when you Charge on-the-road, it negates the fuel savings advantage of the EV).

However, if you look at how most people drive their cars (me included) ... 90% of my driving is either back-and-forth to work, running errands around town, and maybe short hops out of town or to neighboring states. All of that driving falls under the purvey of charging at home, which works out to a savings of about 40-50% for most owners (from what I can tell).

So you save 40-50% in fuel costs 90% of the time, then you pay the equivalent of gas prices on your long-haul trips. I think that's a pretty good deal (at least for now) ...

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UPDATE: I just posted this, then saw @JayTee2014 's snuck in a post about me just above. All I can say is ... I don't jump at anything. It takes me a good long while to make a decision on almost anything ... unless I've got the proverbial 'gun to my head' and have to make a decision quickly (which has really never happened in my life ... that I can remember).

Here's what happened with the car purchase: I would've bought another Equinox by now if they'd just kept the V6 engine. I don't trust those Turbos to go my requisite 222,222 miles. So, then it was the Acadia. Deals weren't bad, but I just wasn't feeling it. Then the Blazer came along ... I like it, but no deals ... they want me to pay sticker??? Forget it! Then came the Bolt ... the deals were really good ... but OOPS! ... the batteries started catching fire! And we're not talking minor fires here. "Mini-Hiroshima fires" where the entire vehicle gets consumed ... leaving only the charred skeletal remains! Sorry, but as Hall & Oates sang in the 80's: "I can't go for that!".

So ... I'm continuing to drive my 2011 Equinox (and 2002 Impala), waiting for the Equinox EV with the newer "Ultium" battery. GM claims it'll be $30,000+ ... but I'm guessing they're lying about that. We'll see ...
 

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Electric cars are still a novelty item for the rich. Unless gas becomes unobtanium there will never be a financial justification for going electric. Sure the Bolt is affordable now (which should open a lot of peoples eyes) but it's still 30k for a nice one when a Spark or Sonic was a 20k car. The rates for electricity will be going up for sure too.
Wife loves the Sonic LT hatchback we got in 2017. It was $17,500 back then really well equipped with Push Button Start, Keyless entry, Power Driver Seat, Heated front seats, and really darn near as much room as the Buick Encore or original Chevy Trax. . . . just a couple inches lower ride.

Car Wheel Land vehicle Tire Vehicle
 
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The "problem" that I see with electric vehicles is the price gouging that people see when purchasing electricity away from their home. While it should be cheaper when "fueling up" on the road, is is far from cheaper. It makes electric vehicles more expensive per mile driven than a gas powered vehicle.

I have been reading about the newest Toyota Prius Hybrid, to be announced tonight, and it looks like it will be a popular vehicle. Stay tuned !

And then . . .. there's the $6,000 to $8,000 cost of a battery replacement ( todays cost ! ) when the time comes and reduced drive distance as the battery ages . . . . and then, trade or sell value when the battery is nearly worn out ? ? ?
 

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Here's what happened with the car purchase: I would've bought another Equinox by now if they'd just kept the V6 engine. I don't trust those Turbos to go my requisite 222,222 miles. So, then it was the Acadia. Deals weren't bad, but I just wasn't feeling it. Then the Blazer came along ... I like it, but no deals ... they want me to pay sticker??? Forget it! Then came the Bolt ... the deals were really good ... but OOPS! ... the batteries started catching fire! And we're not talking minor fires here. "Mini-Hiroshima fires" where the entire vehicle gets consumed ... leaving only the charred skeletal remains! Sorry, but as Hall & Oates sang in the 80's: "I can't go for that!".

So ... I'm continuing to drive my 2011 Equinox (and 2002 Impala), waiting for the Equinox EV with the newer "Ultium" battery. GM claims it'll be $30,000+ ... but I'm guessing they're lying about that. We'll see ...
I get that. I was just yanking the chain. LOL
But Colt. . . it seems you procrastinate so long that you keep missing windows of opportunity for a realistic low price like on the 2016-17 Equinox V6s you kept chasing till they were all gone.
And passing up a 2019 Acadia SLT for $31,779 ($40,785 MSRP) or even LESS if you opted for an Acadia SLE trim.

And $30K for an Equinox EV? Maybe. . but they do have different size battery packs too, so the bottom ones wil likely have that and less features.
And for those of us in winter climes. . . how long will the battery really last per charge when interior heat, seat heaters and what-not are running?

I still think EV anything is for warm weather climates, urban use mostly, passenger vehicles (Ever see the video on the Ford F-150 EV that ran out of juice on just a short trip hauling a very light load? )

And I don't see how people in rental housing of any sort are going to get their land lords to provide even multi slot level 2 chargers, so that leaves rental dwellers out of the market. What are they to do when there are no more used petrol vehicles to buy? ?

I see EV developing MUCH slower than is being touted by GM and other makers and even some BIG mistakes made along the way. I hope I'm wrong . . .. but EV is too much cart before the horse and only practical for the limited denizens you see on Bolt , Prius, etc forums.
 

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I'm an old buzzard and know I'm set in my ways so I've tried to keep my mind open about EV's. The more information I've gleaned, the more I'm leaning to those in the camp that the current push for EV's is a huge scam, perpetrated by the govt. and embraced by Mary and others for the $. By the time everyone is in an EV, some new technology will come about and they'll all be obsolete. Apple's I-phone comes to mind, by the time everyone is done standing in line tripping over their tongue only to happy to shell out big bucks for the latest and greatest I-phone, it's already obsolete, and the sheep will return next year for rinse and repeat. For those interested, Google million mile Tesla. A German took a model S 1 million miles driving around Europe. 3 replacement battery packs (which doesn't sound bad), but get this: it took 8, count them 8, electric motors to reach that mileage. If you're paying attention Colt, be prepared to cut that 222 in half or so. So if Tesla is having problems with this technology, I for one have about zero confidence in the General and other johnny come lately's to build a reliable and long lasting EV. I'll spare everyone my thoughts on the self-driving aspect.
 

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Discussion Starter · #26 ·
I'm liking these new high hp plug in hybrids, specifically the new RAV 4 with 300+ hp. Sounds like Jeep is moving in the same direction.
Today when filling up, I averaged 17.8 mpg while using premium, that's with warming my car up in the morning though. If the prices on these high hp hybrids start to come down, they're making more financial since. Toyota has proven their hybrid technology with the Prius, batteries and motors should all be solid.
At this point, I would have rather gotten a hybrid with less power but less costly to romp on.
 

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EV's are a second car, the one that doesn't go out of town on trips.
Tire disposal charge bugs a lot of folks, think of the battery disposal fee, it's not gonna be $2
 
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Level 1 EV charging at home only yields about 4 miles per hour. If you want Level 2 charging you need a dedicated 240v outlet in your garage or driveway, which can cost several hundred to thousands depending on the electrical system of your residence. If you can't recover enough range each week charging each day for 10-12 hours at home, you may be forced to use a fast charger once a week to top off. Not very convenient.

The most recent Consumer Reports rated plugin hybrids the least reliable of all hybrid vehicles. Not convinced plugin hybrids are a great solution compared to standard hybrids. A family member got a new standard hybrid and loves it. They get 45-50mpg regularly. When they tell people they have a hybrid, the most common initial response is "yeah, I don't want a car I have to plug in.". When my family member says "it doesn't plug in...it's not that kind of car" people act surprised and never knew that standard hybrids don't get plugged in. There is still a huge public education/perception issue with hybrids.
 

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I get that. I was just yanking the chain. LOL
But Colt. . . it seems you procrastinate so long that you keep missing windows of opportunity for a realistic low price like on the 2016-17 Equinox V6s you kept chasing till they were all gone.
And passing up a 2019 Acadia SLT for $31,779 ($40,785 MSRP) or even LESS if you opted for an Acadia SLE trim.
Yup! If procrastination ever becomes an Olympic Event, I'm taking the Gold, for sure!

But seriously ... I'm at that point in life where my car needs have changed. Kids grown up, out of college and working now. I'm not wracking up the mileage like I used to. When I chased those "leftover" Equinoxes and Terrains ... I didn't need to buy a new car. My Equinox was only 7 years old at that point. But those were the last of the V6s, so I felt like I had to at least make an effort ... just to see what kind of deal I could get. I very nearly bit on the Acadia SLE2 from Laura ... I think it was going to run about $28k, less my $4200 GM Dollars ... so ... inside $24k! Pretty good deal ... but again ... I didn't really need it. And I actually enjoy the process of hunting down the vehicles and sending out the offers (to see what comes back). To me, actually buying the vehicle is anticlimactic (except visiting a place I've never been to go get it).

And $30K for an Equinox EV? Maybe. . but they do have different size battery packs too, so the bottom ones wil likely have that and less features.
And for those of us in winter climes. . . how long will the battery really last per charge when interior heat, seat heaters and what-not are running?

I still think EV anything is for warm weather climates, urban use mostly, passenger vehicles (Ever see the video on the Ford F-150 EV that ran out of juice on just a short trip hauling a very light load? )

And I don't see how people in rental housing of any sort are going to get their land lords to provide even multi slot level 2 chargers, so that leaves rental dwellers out of the market. What are they to do when there are no more used petrol vehicles to buy? ?

I see EV developing MUCH slower than is being touted by GM and other makers and even some BIG mistakes made along the way. I hope I'm wrong . . .. but EV is too much cart before the horse and only practical for the limited denizens you see on Bolt , Prius, etc forums.
Yeah ... the Equinox EV isn't going to be $30k ... more like $37,500 (for starters) ... and GM will say something like "that $30k number was based on the $7500 Federal Credit ... blah, blah, blah". But I don't think the Equinox will qualify because of all the caveats and restrictions. Well ... maybe $3500 of it??

There are still a lot of hurdles to get over with these EVs ... not the least of which is the flammability issue, but I think the Equinox EV can at least be a solid #2 vehicle ... even with the Range hit you take in the colder climates. Time will tell how far it ends up going. Maybe it'll just end up flaming out ... literally!
 
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Level 1 EV charging at home only yields about 4 miles per hour. If you want Level 2 charging you need a dedicated 240v outlet in your garage or driveway, which can cost several hundred to thousands depending on the electrical system of your residence. If you can't recover enough range each week charging each day for 10-12 hours at home, you may be forced to use a fast charger once a week to top off. Not very convenient.

The most recent Consumer Reports rated plugin hybrids the least reliable of all hybrid vehicles. Not convinced plugin hybrids are a great solution compared to standard hybrids. A family member got a new standard hybrid and loves it. They get 45-50mpg regularly. When they tell people they have a hybrid, the most common initial response is "yeah, I don't want a car I have to plug in.". When my family member says "it doesn't plug in...it's not that kind of car" people act surprised and never knew that standard hybrids don't get plugged in. There is still a huge public education/perception issue with hybrids.
Two years ago, a co-worker here needed a new car to make his 72-mile, one-way, drive to work each day. He's partial to Volkswagen, so he went with the Golf, but I suggested the EV ... to which he smugly replied, "yeah, and how many times am I gonna be broken down on the side of the road?". LOL!

After he bought the Golf, I produced this fuel cost comparison for him. Now ... keep in mind, this was done July 2020 (2+ years ago), and it is the SouthEast, so warmer climate overall (where EVs perform better):

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<Co-Worker's> Work Commute In Electric Vehicle (2020 Chevy Bolt)

144 miles round trip

Car #1: Volkswagen Golf (37 mpg)

144 miles/37 mpg = 4 gallons of gas per day

4 gallons of gas @ $2.25/gal = $9 per day = $45/week = $2070/year (i.e. 46 work weeks, which is 52 weeks – 6 weeks “time off”)

Car #2: Chevrolet Bolt EV

240 mile range / 60 kWh battery = ~ 4 miles/kWh (easily … I’ve seen as high as 5.4 reported!)

144 miles/4 = 36 kWh usage per day

Cost of Electricity in <South East US> $0.11/KWh = ~$4 per day

Savings : Total = ~$1440/year

  • Fuel: $9 - $4 = $5/day = $25/week = $1150/year (46 work weeks)
  • Oil Changes (every 5k miles on 33,000/year) = 6 * $50 = $300
  • Transmission Fluid: $50
  • State EV Fee for Roads (-$60/year)
Charge Time:

Note: The “stock” EVSE charge that comes with the Bolt can only charge at a maximum of 12 Amps! Also, you probably wouldn’t want to charge all the way to 100% every time because that limits your braking “Regen” capability which replenishes the battery, AND because of the debate over whether continually charging to 100% decreases the lifespan of the Lithium battery pack.


  • Using “stock” EVSE Charger: Standard 120 volt @ 12 amps =1440 Watts. 36000 Wh / 1440 W = 25 hours (not doable)
  • Using “stock” EVSE Charger: 240V @ 12 amps = 2880 Watts. 36000 Wh/2880 = 12.5 hours (workable).
  • Using 24 amp “Level 2” Charger such as “Clipper Creek”: 30 amp circuit: 240V “Dryer” circuit = 24 amps drawn * 240V = 5760 Watts. 36000 Wh/5760 W = 6.25 hours (this works better)
  • Using 32 amp “Level 2” Charger such as “Clipper Creek”: 40 amp circuit: 32 amps drawn * 240 volts = 7680 watts. 36000 Wh/7680 = 4.7 hours (even better)!
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If we re-calculate for today's gas prices, the math looks even better (in favor of the EV). Most people in the South already have a 240V circuit they could use for charging, but obviously a dedicated 30 or 40 amp circuit would be better. The upgraded Charger would cost around $500, and then whatever deal you could find with an Electrician to add the 30 amp circuit ... hopefully with minimum wire and existing Breaker Box capacity ... maybe $1500 ... so ... your fuel cost savings would start in Year #2 instead of #1 if you needed this extra expense.
 

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Desertdean that's a very impressive mpg you're getting. Government figures have it at 26 on hwy and 21 city. My 2.4 Hyundai averaged about 21 and was a real slug.

Actually that is not uncommon at all, many people get over 30 mpg with the 2.0 engine, my wife and i took a 1000 km trip to Montreal and back from Georgian bay and averaged 7.8 l per 100, which i think will translate to 32mpg american. GM has many faults but one thing i have noticed is they underpromise on the mpg and overdeliver.
 

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Tips to get near factory mpg:
  • Oil with low viscosity 5W-30 dexos 2 (Amsoil Signature, Mobil1 x1)
  • Replace spark plugs to fresh iridium
  • New air filter
  • Increase tires pressure
  • Don't use A/C when it's not needed
  • Drive with closed windows without races, better to get good average speed, then max speed
  • Kick off all trash from car that you don't need
  • Clear fuel injectors with cleaners (Injector cleaner, GDI cleaner or so)
  • Use eco mode
 

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Discussion Starter · #36 ·
Striker I try to follow most of those guidelines. When I bought the vehicle this summer I replaced the sparkplugs, the air filter still looks brand new, changed the oil and Trans fluid recently. Just about everything I can think of is fresh and I'm still getting horrible mpg.
I haven't tried any fuel additivee, from what I can tell GM doesn't recommend it.
One of the reasons I passed on the V6 Cherokee is I thought I would get better mpg. If I didn't have such a short commute to work, less than 5 miles, I probably would get mid 20s with my driving style.
Last fill up I had, with warming my car up 5 minutes in the morning on cold days, yielded me 17.1 mpg. Now take reg. 87 gas was 3.65 and it was 4.35 for premium, that's a 19% price increase, take that 19% off an average of my 17.1mpg, gives me 13.86 mpg, ouch!
 

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You may want to check your tire pressure. Despite the recommendation, I tend to keep mine at about 35 psi. Most of my driving is either suburban, or highway, and I tend to average about 32 mpg.
 
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Short trips likely has a big effect. One thing I have noticed on the 9 speed is it likes to hold a lower gear when cruising. If i feather the gas I can get it to up-shift, and it will hold unless I give it more gas. Shift points on mine for higher gears is 32, 42 , 52. It will hold 9th down to about 48 before it downshifts. A couple hundred rpms make a big difference in these motors. I accidentally reset my trip b for life time mileage, but for the last 7500 miles I'm averaging 30.9. My wife doesn't get nearly the mileage I do.
 

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My wife doesn't get nearly the mileage I do.
A somewhat common refrain here. LOL!

There should be some password-protected option you can set that explicitly tells the Driver how many gallons of fuel they've wasted.
 
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