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Catch can

64K views 81 replies 24 participants last post by  Tony0987654 
#1 · (Edited)
2.4L 2014 Terrain

chose this can cause I could open it to add steel wool for condensing, and a 'straw' to either suck it to the bottom so fumes have to rise through steel wool, or suck it down through the steel wool and up straw. I didnt keep track of which hole i had the straw in. It was 3/8" nylon water line I drilled several holes in bottom half.
It slip fits inside either fitting in the lid. I put silicone all around the line before final insert.
This lid was also nice as I could remount it with a better choice of orientation of the inlet/outlet fittings.

Cheapest can on amazon was welded, so this was best 2nd choice for me.

Toughest part was the #8 x 1/2" self drilling screws I used to mount to vehicle.
Put masking tape on screw head so it stayed put in the 1/4" socket I used my hex impact with a hex to 1/4 drive adapter to spin them in.

I used the brass plumbing inserts to keep the original 'pipe' from crushing with the clamps.
Personally, i dont feel the clamps are required. The supplied blue hose was a very firm press to get over the original pipe. I would use the clamps at the fittings on the can though.

reverting, just use the supplied blue line as a coupler to rejoin the original pipe.

Ill need to add some 1/2" peel and stick foam insulation strip on back of can to keep can from jiggling.

Otherwise - allow a half hour/1 beer install once you have everything together.

Occurred to me to blow air through it first to ensure no bits loose getting sucked into engine.
Pulled the blue lines off and blew 90psi through inlet/outlet. Nothing came out but ymmv.
reassembled with peace of mind.
 

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#2 · (Edited)
I doubt you will see much collected in the catch can the way you have it installed on a 2.4L. . . unless you do a lot of WOT or driving down steep inclines (high vacuum conditions).

The 2.4L engine has an internal PCV valve that allows air and blow-by vapors to be drawn from the crankcase into the intake manifold. That is the "dirt side" where a catch can is most useful and traditionally installed. It also is the source of valve coking and carbon build up.

The place you installed that catch can is the "clean side" which may catch some moisture in cold weather with a bit of oil vapor occasionally. But will not prevent intake manifold oil contamination, valve coking, and main oil seal blow out if the internal PCV valve freezes like it is prone to do.
 
#4 · (Edited)
EDIT: - - BTW . . the thread you were reading "PCV Valve Locations" is old and applied to the older 2.4L I4 and older 3.0L V6 engines. Disregard that as it no longer applies to your 2.4L. The PCV path has cahnged since that thread was posted. There really is no PCV "valve. . but an orifice now in both I4 and V6 engines.

No worries. It just is not where a catch can needs to be installed. There will be some amounts of water vapor especially in cooler or cold weather as well and some minimal oil vapors. But the real stuff is happening via the internal PCV orifice allowing stuff into the intake manifold.

Read Page 5 - -the thread in link as it applies to the 2.4L engine PCV routes from about 2013 onward. LINK:- http://www.equinoxforum.net/10-gene...resting-find-crankcase-vent-5.html#post219273


The picture below is the 3.6L LFX engine that has been used in Equinox/Terrain and cars like the Camaro roughly from 2010 to 2017. The Blue line and arrow indicates the "Clean Side" fresh air supply into one of the valve covers on this engine and supplies metered and filtered air into the crankcase. This is the equivalent path where you installed the catch can.
The upper Red line and arrow represents the "Dirty Side" flow of crankcase blowby gases and vapors which are routed from the other V6 valve cover to the 90 degree fitting shown on the top of the intake manifold in the picture. Those blow-by gases and water vapor from combustion products are what contaminates the inside of the intake manifold and then passes those vapors onto the back side of the intake valves and into the combustion chamber to burn up and reduce pollution, instead of venting them to atmosphere as was done with the "Oil Breather" pipe on older engines.

The place you installed the catch can is the clean air side allowing air into the 2.4L valve cover and eventually the crankcase. Yes, there may be some nominal back flow that occurs there under some conditions.
However, the Red path shown in the picture below on the 3.6L LFX is what is internal on the 2.4L engines and the place a catch can could really do the job had it been accessible.



Current 2.4L Four Cylinder PCV Orifice Location - - -


 
#6 ·
Well. Absolutely nothing. Can and hoses are totally clean.
$10for a new and clean OEM pvc pipe, and the catch can will be coming out.

Just had a p015a code, slow upstream o2 sensor response. Poss bad o2 sensor.
Doubt it’s related. Will clear code after removal and address the o2 sensor if the code returns after.

Will update if there is anything new, but suspect this is it.
 
#7 ·
I recently installed a catch can on my 2012 Equinox w/ 2.4L w/115,000 miles. The hook up from the OPs pics looks right, BUT you need to put the catch can lower than than the outlet coming from the valve cover. How you have it set up isn't going to fix anything. When your engine cools, all the condensation is going to run right back down into the intake PCV passage. I installed my catch can so it's a down hill run from the valve cover to the can. I checked it after 3000 miles and it was nearly FULL of an oil/water/gas mixture. So I'm going to start checking it every 2000 miles.

The stock air box has what you might call a catch reservoir built into it (right where the PCV hose goes in), but it can fill up and seep right back down into the valve cover (which I suspect is the main problem with this design). Remove the air box, sit it on its side and see how much crap drains out. I did this before I installed the catch can, and cleaned it out.
 

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#8 ·
Agree on that. I have yet to install mine.
Reason for quoting your post was about the reservoir built in, if an aftermarket intake is installed, there is no longer a factory catch in place, a catch can as you described, installed BELOW the inlets/outlets would be a must assuming gm put one in the intake for a reason.
 
#12 ·
Not that I have seen. It's just a really small PCV orifice and in a poor location. IT eventually will get carbon deposits and even ice in sub zero temps with short trips.
@bigb12359 drilled a hole in the plastic intake right above where the PCV orifice is. He plugged the hole with plug and then can regularly clean the orifice with a wire.
You might PM him for specifics or pictures.
 
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#13 ·
UPDATE: Replaced the intake manifold today, the PCV orifice was completely clogged. I replaced it because the gasket kit is about $30, but the whole manifold with gaskets was $60! I'm keeping the old one and will clean it up and use it to just keep swapping out the manifold every 60K mi or so. I also cleaned the throttle body, and used CRC GDI cleaner to clean the valves. Engine is purring like a kitten now.
 
#14 ·
UPDATE: It's been 1000 miles since my last post. The car has only burned .5 qt of oil, and the last tank of gas (midgrade) we got 30 MPG!!! This car has gotten 26-27 since we drove it off the lot. The catch can is bone dry...as it should be. I'm keeping it installed as it will indicate when the pcv orifice is becoming clogged again.
 
#15 ·
It would be interesting if someone took the time to peruse all the past posts on rear main seal blowouts to see what mileage these began happening as that would give us a baseline to see when the pcv orifice could expected to become clogged. I would guess there would be increased oil consumption with the clogged orifice as well, unrelated to the piston ring issues on the 2010's-2012's. If the GM engineers had been on top of things, even with the poor design of the PCV pathway, intake manifold removal and orifice cleaning could have been included as recommended routine maintenance, much as timing chain replacement on some zero clearance engines is. Instead GM has apparently decided to wash their hands of the 2.4 and customer satisfaction since from what I've seen no one's VIN is included in the TSB about rear main seal blowout. Some bean counter probably decided it would cost GM more to stand behind their product than they would lose in future profits from lost sales.
 
#16 ·
Just a ball park guess - - - -
I would say any 2.4L engine owner might do well to take off the intake manifold and clean the PCV orifice at least every 30,000 miles.

But even with that. . . for owners who live and drive in very cold sub zero climates the PCV could freeze and clog at any time.
That was the reason for suggesting the use of a vented oil filler cap at least in winter months to relieve crankcase pressure if the PCV orifice froze shut.
 
#17 · (Edited)
Makes me glad I have a heated garage and also it is 11 miles to the nearest town. Engine will always get fully warmed up enough when we use it to drive out any moisture that could freeze, and when parked overnight will be at a nice 65F even when the outside temp is -20F.

But taking the intake manifold off and following the GM TSB on cleaning out the PCV orifice is a wise idea. Heck, need to clean the throttle body and other stuff anyway, might as well do the job right. I use CRC Intake Valve cleaner every 10,000 miles on a GDI engine. Cleaning the MAS and the Throttle body is really easy on the 2.4. Nice thing is, everything is right up front. Even spark plugs are a easy change on the 2.4.
 
#18 ·
Actually, there is no guaranty that driving a certain amount of miles will drive out enough moisture/contaminates and exhaust condensate to avoid the 2.4L PCV orifice from freezing in very cold winter driving.

We saw this especially in posts the past 2 or 3 years here on the forum from all over the country. Previous to that it was barely an item since 2010. Because of very cold temps, minus double digits and varying climate conditions, a pressure relief on the 2.4L crankcase is the best option for avoiding a main seal blow out. The 2.4L PCV orifice could freeze even before the engine is up to a warm enough temperature to drive out sufficient moisture.
 
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#19 ·
After reviewing GM's TSB on this issue and some other articles I have come across, the most straightforward thing one can do to keep on top of this is by occasionally taking the clean side PCV hose off and putting a piece of paper up against the valve cover port and see if there is any vacuum that holds the paper while the engine is running. If so then the PCV system is operating properly. If not, then the PCV orifice is getting plugged up. Seems like a good first step one can occasionally do before removing intake manifold.

It its a simplified version of the guidance given techs by GM to check for negative pressure at the clean side port.

Some just get a kick out of taking things apart, so they can still have their fun yanking off the intake manifold on a regular basis. For those of us that time is more valuable, doing a quick check like mentioned above could keep an eye on things and doesn't take much time. Heck, I can take the covers off and have the MAF cleaned and the Throttle body cleaned, and everything back in place in 15 minutes. Did it tonight on my Nox. It should be nothing to occasionally check the clean side port for a possible PCV issue.

And oil usage is also a prime early indicator also. If one doesn't experience oil consumption then all of a sudden it starts, the PCV being clogged is likely the culprit.

So there are methodologies to determine a problem without having to tear things apart. I am not into the Tim Allen methodology of "If it ain't broke, you can probably still fix it".
 
#20 · (Edited)
Yes .. all that has already been covered in the several PCV, "blown main seal", and oil consumption threads. . . including the GM tech bulletins.
Yet .. installing a vented oil cap and using that as a preventative measure especially in winter may be the best option for average owners. The PCV orifice has proven that it can freeze at any time in older or even relatively new 2.4L engines.
Oil consumption was most often caused on earlier 2010 to 2013 2.4L engines by the infamous high pressure fuel pump seals leaking fuel into the crankcase and/or piston rings failing. A GM tech bulletin covered replacement of pistons and rings with upgraded components to address that and the HPFP.
If oil consumption is observed due to a clogged PCV orifice, it may already be too late since the oil is likely being lost to a popped out main seal. They start to seep oil first, then finally pop the lip on the seal and loose it all.
 
#21 · (Edited)
UPDATE: 6000 mile oil change: 6000 miles since changing the intake manifold. There was about 1/4 cup of oil in the catch can. I can't freaking believe the PCV orifice is clogged again after only 6,000 miles....this is unacceptable!!! GM needs to address this problem!!! Removing the intake manifold to clean the PCV orifice every 6000 miles is way beyond what I would call "normal" maintenance!!
 
#22 ·
Try the cfm vented oil cap, $80, it has a nylon ball that won't let air into crankcase.
It will vent crankcase pressure,
and if you live where it is cold in winter
It will prevent rear main seal failure.

Your clean side catch can should then stay empty .....
 
#25 ·
I did use one of those while I was searching for the right catch can. The actual problem is the piston ring blow-by. I'm over the 120K mile TSB limit, so trying to decide what to do....change the pistons and rings myself....try and get a dealer to change them despite the fact I'm over 120K miles (I had an oil consumption test done at 118K, so at least they have a record of that)..., or find a totaled post 2013 Nox and replace the engine.
 
#26 ·
EricJ......Gotcha,
you have "blowby" which increases crankcase pressure.
I bet the dirty side PCV orifice is NOT plugged,
I think you would get more gunk in your cleanside catchcan if it was plugged.

Your Equinox crankcase pressure is so great, that all the "blowby" pressure can NOT be vented through your dirty side PCV orifice,
therefor the high crankcase crank case pressure from blowby also vents through the cleanside PVC breather hose, and fills your catchcan.

The "vented" oil cap, should keep crankcase pressure at zero, or at negative pressure (vacuum),
and in theory, prevent your catch can from filling up, even if you have blowby.
Also, by keeping your crankcase pressure at zero (or negative) , your oil control ring might be able to "control" oil better.

GM said they "fixed the problem"
.... with a 5-25-2013 running production change....
... as summarized in gm techlink, august 2013

===> 2.4L Ecotec Engine Oil Consumption
August 6, 2013
Excessive oil consumption on 2010-2013 Equinox, Terrain equipped with the 2.4L engine
If excessive oil consumption is confirmed after an oil consumption test, new pistons and piston rings should be installed.
(THE FIX IS.... Piston Ring Coating)

The top compression ring in the new kit has a more robust coating on it that is designed not to wear as quickly as the original coating. Tests indicate that it wears about 4-5 times longer than the original coating.

If the top compression ring is worn, it will allow combustion pressure past it, which causes the oil control rings to be less effective and results in excessive oil consumption

Zebra Stripes

The pistons must be replaced because as the rings wear down, it starts to widen the piston ring groves. The worn grooves will not retain the new rings correctly.

The “zebra” stripping on the bore surface is not an indication of a cylinder bore abnormality, but rather a transfer of the ring material as it was worn down. The bores are still uniform and the new rings seal.
The validation of the new ring pack was done on used blocks that had zebra striping. It’s not necessary to do any surface treatment to the zebra striped bores when installing the new pistons and rings.
^^ From techlink ^^

Obviously,
your suggestions of new piston and rings
Or a new engine.... would address root cause of blowby and oil consumption.
 
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#27 ·
Did you do any testing on the vented cap to see at what manifold pressure (crack pressure) it opens. Which vented cap did you use? I have found on my NOX, even with fully open orifice, new pistons and rings, cruise speed under moderate load, intake vacuum goes to near zero and pushes/pulls moisture through the cleanside. The key is intake vacuum. City driving, the cleanside tube and cap stay dry.
 
#28 ·
Sydnesb,
You have good questions.
First allow me to ask you,
Do you have a V6 ?
Do you have the larger holes in your dirty side PCV orifice?

EricJ , in his posts above, ^^ said he cleaned (replaced) his dirty side PCV orifice in his 4 cylinder equinox.
(the intake manifold has the about 0.080 of an inch diameter, by 1/4 length, orifice (hole) molded into the manifold)

But then, AGAIN, soon he started getting crankcase oil-gunk pushed out his cleanside breather hose, into his cleanside catchcan.

The point is, that his dirty side PCV orifice can not vent crankcase pressure from piston blowby fast enough,
Thus
the crankcase pressure and the resulting vapor oil-gunk is also escaping through his clean side PCV breather hose.

Even though EricJ very skillfully disassembled his engine, and installed a brand new plastic intake manifold(= new dirty side PCV orifice)
EricJ's new dirty side PCV orifice, very quickly gunked up with engine oil, and other gunk.....
And crankcase pressure correspondingly increased
Thus more gunk went out his cleanside PCV breather hose, as he described in his comments above ^^


I use the cfm oil cap
You ask, ..... Did I do any Testing of cfm cap to determine cracking pressure??
YES!
Using my lungs and mouth, on a brand new cfm oil cap
I can easily blow air out thru the cfm vented oil cap,
thus cracking pressure is close to zero,
I would guess 1/10 of a psi is cracking pressure.

FYI, on the fc219 oil cap, I have read on these forums that you can not blow air through fc219 cap using mouth and lungs, thus cracking pressure on the fc219 cap is greater then 1.3 psi

FYI
I have the cfm vented cap on my 2012 V6 traverse with 80 k miles. It has the smaller holes in the dirty side PCV orifice.
I switched to the cfm oil cap on last January ( at about 70k miles) after addidas shared his brilliant discovered of cfm vented oil cap.
I used to get oil-crankcase-gunk in air box hose ( after air filter and before throttle body). The gunk would flow from the crankcase, up the cleanside PCV breather hose and then deposit the gunk in the air box (after air filter and before throttle body)
Last month during disassembly of the engine in order to do a walnut blast of the intake valves
I inspected the air box hose (after air filter and before throttle body)
And it was bone dry, 100 percent oil free.
So my conclusion is .... that instead of having crankcase gasses oil-gunk, backing up my cleanside pcv breather hose and then condensing the oil-gunk in my air box ( after air filter and before throttle body)
That the cfm cap keeps crankcase pressure close to zero, thus eliminating that problem.

Also FYI
Both my 2012 V6 traverse and my 2017 V6 equinox both have the same/similar engines, both have the cfm oil cap.

But, the 2012 has small holes in the dirty side PCV orifice
And the 2017 has large holes in the dirty side pcv orifice
Both have the same catch can, the catch can is spliced into the hose after the dirty side PCV orifice...
But,
not surprisingly the 2017 accumulates at least 2x the amount of liquid crankcase gunk in the catch can as the 2012.
Why?
Even though the 2012 probably has more piston blowby,
The 2017 has more liquid crankcase gunk in its catch can then the 2012 has in its catch can....
BECAUSE the 2017 has larger holes in its dirty side PCV orifice.
BECAUSE Only piston-combustion chamber vacuum sucks crankcase gasses out of crankcase via dirty side PCV, smaller holes means less gunk gets sucked,
bigger holes means more crankcase gunk gets sucked.

My 2 cents^^^
 
#33 ·
My Nox is a 2.4L. Does the V-6 have the same extreme blowby, freezing PCV ports and rear seal failures as the I-4?

The stock intake is a fixed orifice, meaning there will be a fixed flow rate for given pressure or vacuum. At idle and low speeds and loads the vacuum is higher, at higher speeds and higher loads there is less vacuum and thus lower flow rates through the fixed orifice. I have measured less than 1 in of vacuum, sometimes positive pressure on the 2.4L running at 65mph, low loads,very slight grades. This is with a clear orifice, new pistons and rings, and maximum compression on all four cylinders. GM screwed up and went the cheap route and deleted the external PCV and valve. In order to control blow-by and pressures in the engine, a vacuum must be present and in sufficient quantity.

The worse the blow-by, and the worse the fuel dilution in the oil, coupled with excessive moisture and low vacuum it will most certainly push this corrosive acid/oil emulsion mix you call gunk out the cleanside.

"That the cfm cap keeps crankcase pressure close to zero, thus eliminating that problem."

Putting in vented cap only worsens the accumulation of corrosive acids inside the engine. Better to remove this gunk and capture it in a catch can/separator than leave it in your engine. That is why the FC219 has a higher crack pressure. If it vented at the slightest pressure like the CFM, the PCV system would fail at removing the unwanted gases and acids at high engine loads and speeds where it occurs most often. The CFM is only band-aid. The solution is to provide adequate vacuum at all engine loads.

A true PCV valve with tapered seat and spring will control flow rate based on engine speed and load and keep moisture and blow-by out of your engine. The CFM was not designed at all for Equinox/Terrain or any other passenger vehicle. It was designed for high performance, forced induction engines of vastly larger displacement that never see the high moisture and blow-by accumulation conditions that are in the these passenger vehicle engines. In fact, many of these performance cars use dry sump systems and some actually have crank driven vacuum pumps.

My 2.4L PCV system stays bone dry in the warmer months, and low humidity, driving in the city where the engine is drawing adequate vacuum through the fixed orifice. When I get on the highway with low vacuum conditions is when I get the gunk, worse in the colder months. A cleanside separator provides more protection, it removes the unwanted gunk, it does not freeze up like the CFM, it is easily inspected and cleaned, and it costs less.

Yes, your 2017 V-6 with large orfices will draw more oil and moisture than the smaller orifices on your 2012. I don't think anyone is arguing with you on this. Basic air flow physics. A 1/16" orifice at 20" of vacuum (idle, deceleration) will flow 4x more air than an engine at high engine and speeds where you have only a few inches of vacuum or less. Where would you want that high air flow, at idle or cruising speeds.
 
#29 ·
I have a 2014 2.4 I just bought. I am trying to be proactive and do what I can to make the 2.4 engine last(also transmission etc). I added a ac delco cap with internal vent(was $10) just as a safety net. The terrain has never had anything done to it(was at 53,000 miles) except oil changes every 6k miles. I know they were supposed to have fixed the oil issue 5/2013 and after, but I wanted to be safe with the vented cap as a if it happens I have the vent, if not, oh well. The line going from upper intake to top of motor was almost spotless clean, zero oil came out, zero oil or water in that holding area in the intake cover thing. I spayed it out with carb cleaner and was clean. The throttle body also was very good, some minor brown, spray alone got it off in seconds. I sprayed the hole on top left of motor too. Is there anything else to look out for? Will be changing oil every 5k to 6k with only mobile 1 or penzoil ultra platinum 5w30 and using oem filters. Will do fluid exchanges on transmission every 15k with valvoline or havoline full synthetic and mobile 1 or valvoline in differentials every 25k.
 
#30 · (Edited)
You are on the right track. I did the AC Delco cap on my wife's 2017 Nox 2.4. With the cold weather, I noticed more moisture and creamy crud ending up in the PCV line to the Intake plenum. Last night, I finally did what I had been intending to do and put a air / oil separator in the PCV line to collect the nonsense that comes thru there. This is a temp solution just to see if it actually works and if it does I will go to a better catch can unit and do a more professional looking install. Keeping the crap out of the line and especially from collecting and possibly freezing in the intake plenum and causing pressure issues is my main goal.

Like I stated, this is just a temp solution to see how well things work. So the setup is functional and not show car ready. I had a old Jeg's air / oil separator sitting around and some 3/8" fuel line. I just cut the plastic PCV tubing and slid the ends into the fuel hose. I have the line from the valve cover go to the "in" side of the separator, the "out" side going to the intake plenum. The tubing fits nice and tight in the 3/8" hose, so I didn't use any clamps. As tight as the fit is there is little possibility of a separation. Whole job done in 15 minutes.
 

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#32 ·
The +2018 turbo engines have a traditional external PCV. So easier to service or check for any clogging issues. Also, it is of a larger diameter than the tiny internal 2.4L previous engine.

Plus, , so far I have not heard or seen any owners complain of any frozen of clogged PCV paths.
 
#34 ·
Respectfully Sydnesb,
You said ===>. Putting in vented cap only worsens the accumulation of corrosive acids inside the engine. <===
And I say,
I disagree. Lower crankcase pressure means less "corrosive acids" inside crankcase.

The crankcase can be described as a closed container.
Piston blowby pressure, past worn rings, or piston blowby under wide open throttle, both increase crankcase pressure.
Corrosive piston blow by gasses' and resulting crankcase pressure can only escape from crankcase through two "holes"
1) the 2 mm diameter dirty side PCV orifice, (which in the 2.4 liter equinox has a tendency to plug up with oil and crankcase gunk)
And 2)
the cleanside PCV "sintered" vent and breather hose assembly.

The cfm oil cap, provides a third path of venting crankcase pressure,
and venting all those gasses out old crankcase is best for longer oil life and best for the inside of engine.

Sydnesb, you said ===> That is why the FC219 has a higher crack pressure. If it vented at the slightest pressure like the CFM, the PCV system would fail at removing the unwanted gases and acids at high engine loads and speeds where it occurs most often. <=====
And I say,
I disagree...

When
the intake manifold is under high vacuum (like when you are decelerating)
then crankcase is under vacuum, as vacuum is pulled through dirty side PCV orifice( assuming no piston blowby from really bad piston rings)
then
both cfm and fc219 cap are both sealed and do not let "unmetered" air into crankcase.

When engine is under wide open throttle, and you have piston blowby, (even with good piston rings),
Then the crankcase has positive pressure,
And then
the cfm oil cap immediately relieves crankcase pressure.
(thus also reducing crankcase gunk flowing out cleanside PCV breather vent.)

Higher cracking pressure of the fc219 is not as good as the lower cracking pressure in the cfm oil cap.( you get more gunk flowing out cleanside PCV breather vent at higher cracking pressure. )


The following article says the opposite of your claim that "high crankcase pressure is good. "
The following article says lower crankcase pressure has benefits.
DSportmag dot com, in an article titled
Quick Tech: benefits of lowering crankcase pressure, part 1
Says.....
"When pressure in the crankcase can be reduced, taken to zero, good things happen.
Reduced crankcase pressure improves the sealing of the rings in the cylinder.
Increased differential pressure on the piston rings results in improved ring seal.
" Having zero pressure, improves the ring seal during the intake stroke"
https://dsportmag.com/the-tech/quick-tech-the-benefits-of-lowering-crankcase-pressure-part-1/
That ^^ is what the article says .... ^^

Sydnesb, you said
====> The CFM is only band-aid. The solution is to provide adequate vacuum at all engine loads.<====
And I say,
-Kindly, Please tell me Sydnesb, How do i implement an "adequate vacuum at all engine speeds"
Tell me how to implement it on my 4 cylinder equinox
Be specific,
what to buy?
what hoses have to be cut during install,
where to put the device in the engine compartment?
And how to supply power to the device?

And finally Sydnesb,
-So what if CFM oil cap is a band-aide? ? ?

The cfm oil cap "band aide" prevents crankshaft rear main seal failure
and as the article in dsportmag says
"good things happen"
to your engine when you keep your crankcase at lower pressure.
 
#35 · (Edited)
Ok, boys and girls. Just completed approx 1000 mile road trip with the CP air / oil separator on the 2017 Nox 2.4L clean side. What this picture shows is some hard running for 500 miles. I got the same amount the previous 500 miles and dumped it when I got to our destination. This was the return home stuff. Lots of grades, so RPM's would get ramped up pretty good on some of the pulls. Probably would get less if poking around town or easy, casual rural driving. Y'all can be the judge of whether it does any good, or if you would prefer to have the contents of this going into your intake and all over your valves. No oil consumption. Just a hair off the full mark at about 4800 miles on the oil change.
 

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#38 · (Edited)
Since I have seen conflicting info. And I have searched far and wide! Can someone please tell me, in very simple words is the hose coming out of the valve cover supposed to suck air into the valve cover or blow air out of the valve cover?Also, should there be air blowing out of the oil cap hole or air being sucked in to it?
2.4 / 2010

Thank you in advance!
 
#39 ·
The simple answer is....it does both. If properly working on a healthy engine, and under most light driving conditions, there should be a very slight suction of fresh air into the engine. However under heavy throttle conditions or when lugging the engine, some outflow is going to happen. However as engine mileage gets higher more blow-by is going to happen ( due to piston, rings and cylinder wall wear) , and due to a poorly designed PCV system where the orifice blocks up, it is common to see no suction at all. ( only outflow ). Much the same should happen at the oil filler cap but with more pulsations.
 
#40 · (Edited)
I purchased a 2010 / 2.4 with an engine that was rebuilt completely inside and out. Basically a factory new engine. But with better pistons and rings too. It's got 35k so far.
So the intake is new also. And was drilled as the recall before install. When I remove the hose out of the valve cover, I get puffs of air out. Same with the oil fill hole, air puffs out, AT IDLE.
From my understanding, there should be, at idle, suction in to the valve cover and air coming out of the oil fill hole at idle.
I also have gotten the FC219 oil cap a while back just to be safe. I have no issues with it. Runs perfect. I don't have any condensation or oil in the air plenum. I'm trying to determine if the pcv orifice is stopped up or not.
 
#41 ·
I purchased a 2010 / 2.4
So the intake is new also. And was drilled as the recall before install. When I remove the hose out of the valve cover, I get puffs of air out. Same with the oil fill hole, air puffs out, AT IDLE.
From my understanding, there should be, at idle, suction in to the valve cover and air coming out of the oil fill hole at idle.
I also have gotten the FC219 oil cap a while back just to be safe. I have no issues with it. Runs perfect. I don't have any condensation or oil in the air plenum. I'm trying to determine if the pcv orifice is stopped up or not.

My 2 cents,
my simple answer, like ""stopwatch"" said.....
the direction of air flow in the clean side PCV hose,
depends upon how you are driving....
And Specifically for this 2.4 liter GDI equinox
- if you are idling at a stop light, or are coasting with your foot off the gas, and have high intake manifold vacuum of 10 psi or greater,
And then air flows into crankcase from plastic airbox
OR
- if you are accelerating, or even driving with your foot gently on the gas pedal, then you have less then 9 psi of vacuum in your intake manifold,
And then crankcase gunk air, flows out of crankcase and into airbox.

====>>>> .....And my longer explanation .....
... and how to test your dirty side PCV orifice,
.... and ""creeprcris"" I do not think your dirty side PCV is plugged up.....
==>> --- most of the time, crankcase sees positive pressure, which is why I use the cfm oil cap, to keep crankcase at zero psi pressure, the Fc219 has a higher cracking pressure,,,,,,,,, say 1 psi....==>

For my 2013 Equinox with 40k miles and my 2016 Equinox with 19k miles.... both have 2.4 liter, 4 cylinder LEA Ecotec engine

AT IDLE air flows from the plastic "airbox" to the crankcase, via the cleanside breather hose
And then from the crankcase through the dirty side PCV into the intake manifold, and then through intake valves at the top of the combustion chambers (cylinder) and into the combustion chamber.

At IDLE, in my equinox's, the throttle body "butterfly valve" is closed, and the intake manifold sees about a 10 psi vacuum. ( as measured with my scan tool, OBD Link MX + that pairs up nicely with my iPhone.)

The vacuum comes from the pistons in the combustion chamber, when piston goes down, the piston sucks air into the combustion chamber, which creates a vacuum in the intake manifold.
Because the intake manifold is in a vacuum state,
in addition to sucking a little air of air past the closed throttle body butterfly valve ,
the intake manifold also sucks in air from crankcase via dirty side PCV, putting the crankcase is a slight vacuum. Thus the crankcase sucks in air via cleanside PCV breather hose from the airbox. The air in the airbox just flowed through the air filter, the air is clean.

The cleanside PCV hose is pictured at the top of page 3, in the black and white picture. Arrow 1 points to where it plugs into air box,
And the dirty side orifice is at the top of page 4, with the 1/16 inch drill bit partially inside the orifice.
https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2015/SB-10090101-2280.pdf

At IDLE, I measured the clean side PCV vacuum.
I do the test, using a manaometer, as described on page 3 of the above link,
At the clean air intake I get vacuum readings readings for both cars of about 0.25 psi of vacuum BUT then I instantly
stopped the test and removed the manometer, allowing air to flow into crankcase. By plugging up the clean side PCV air intake with the manometer, The crankcase achieved a vacuum of of 0.25 psi, which is sufficient to suck air into crankcase via crankshaft rear main seal, and it made a horrible whistling sound.
,.... as soon as I heard the Whistling sound, I discontinued the test. My manometer measured a crankcase vacuum about 0.25 psi,
and
==>>> according to that ^^^ gm document, my dirty side PCV orifice is not plugged.<<<<====

I also measured CRANKCASE vacuum at OIl CAP at IDLE.
Using a manometer, and using the oil cap shown on post number 15, on the below link, I was able to hook up my manometer to that oil cap. Then I measured crankcase vacuum.

https://www.equinoxforum.net/31-eng...re-rear-main-seal-2.html#/topics/25827?page=3

--> My 2016 equinox has a crankcase vacuum at idle of about 0.017 psi vacuum.
And my 2013 Equinox has a bit less crankcase vacuum of about 0.009 psi of vacuum.
The vacuum ^^ is so little, that it is almost zero.

This also makes sense, ^^ since the intake manifold has a vacuum of about 10 psi, and it sucks air into the intake manifold from the crankcase via the dirty side PCV orifice,
and air is flowing into crankcase via cleanside PCV breather hose.
Remember when I plugged up the clean air PCV breather hose, crankcase vacuum went instantly to 0.25 psi of vacuum and then the horrible whistling sound.

AT IDLE with the oil cap off, I feel PUFFS of air coming out of crankcase,
BUT,
how can it be that PUFFS escape the crankcase out the oil filler hole? ? Since i measured a vacuum on the crankcase of 0.009 and 0.017 psi? The vacuum should suck air into crankcase. And my dirty side PCV is not plugged up according to the GM test?

My guess is, that crankcase pressure fluctuates. Even though I measured it at a uniform 0.009 psi vacuum, I think the crankcase pressure probably very quickly fluctuates between plus 0.1 psi pressure and minus 0.1 psi vacuum,
so fast, that my manometer shows a steady 0.0009 psi vacuum.
As the pistons go up and down, or as piston blow by occurs in each cylinder, the crankcase pressure goes up and then down giving a PUFFing sensation.


==> Theoretically, at idle,
no air should escape out the oil cap at idle. But this 4 cylinder engine does allow air to PUFF out of oil cap. With my cfm oil cap, I am venting these PUFFS, keeping crankcase at zero PSI.
My 6 cylinder 2017 Equinox, at idle does not "PUFF" air out of the oil fill hole when the oil cap is removed. <==

WOT.... WIDE OPEN THROTTLE....
During WOT,
the flow of air through the cleanside PCV breather hose is OPPOSITE to what was described above at IDLE.
During WOT air flows out of crankcase via cleanside PCV into the airbox.
In fact the "air" that flows out of crankcase through the cleanside PCV breathers hose during WOT is laden with crankcase fumes, crankcase moisture, and crankcase gunk.

((Side note==> It is these fumes, moisture and gunk, that can collect in the cleanside PCV breather hose, and when it is say freezing cold outside, 15 degrees F outsde and you are driving at 40 mph, the wind chill is probably -10F, and very quickly the crankcase moisture and gunk in this cleanside breather hose will freeze solid, and stop the crankcase air from escaping via the cleanside PCV breather hose,
then boom, you could have crankshaft rear main seal failure..... ))

I would bet, that if you could put your hand over the opened oil fill hole, while the car is accelerating (WOT) you would feel lots of air blow out the oil fill hole.

Less intake manifold vacuum during WOT results in less suction of crankcase gasses from crankcase via dirty side PCV into the intake manifold.
When I am accelerating hard, I measure intake manifold vacuum at 0 psi,
This makes logical sense since the throttle body "butterfly valve" is wide open, letting as much clean filtered air into the intake manifold as possible. Thus intake manifold vacuum is zero, and it is not sucking air out of crankcase via dirty side PCV.
And when while cruising at 60 mph the throttle body is partially opens and intake manifold vacuum is 3 psi.

In summary, the crankcase sees a POSITIVE crankcase pressure during those WOT ^^ conditions for two reasons.
1. More piston blowby
2. Less intake manifold vacuum
So the air flows out off the crankcase via cleanside PCV hose and into air box.
 
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