Detailed Document on ECOTEC 2.4L PCV SYSTEM - Page 2 - TerrainForum.net: GMC Terrain Forum
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post #11 of 18 (permalink) Old 01-01-2020, 02:01 PM
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There is much misunderstanding of how a fixed orifice PCV system, especially on the GM Ecotec 2.4L engine operates. Attached is a PDF document I created with pictures and description of the entire system. Refer to my previous post on actual pressure testing of the system and recommendations to improve performance.
I can appreciate your enthusiasm for trying to get the most out of your vehicle, but this is not new and has been thoroughly addressed by GM. There are TSB's and Special Coverage bulletins that go back five years now. Just a simple internet search will yield 14882 –Special Coverage Adjustment – Plugged PCV Orifice in Intake Manifold.
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post #12 of 18 (permalink) Old 01-02-2020, 03:08 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by JayTee2014 View Post
How about you ignore my responses to other posters. I'll do the same.
All this obsessive PCV chatter is just cluttering up, creating a negative forum atmosphere, making insinuations by you and really discrediting to you.
And, yes, this "discussion" and badgering is ended as far as I am concerned and I imagine others are hoping as well.
Jaytee2014, this is forum, if you don't like it when I respond when you specifically name me in a conversation to another member, suggest you use private message.

I have seen you interrupt a conversation between two members discussing the merits and benefits of a catch can on a 2.4L Ecotec. You complain when you get your feelings hurt when they do not take your advice, and use the Poppet Valve gimmick design you have been pushing for years. I have see n you spread disinformation about the PCV system, and dismiss the use of the catch can on the 2.4L, saying it will do little to prevent over pressure conditions in the crankcase.

Wow, now you speak for other members. Would you like me to post again all the negative accusations and false statements you have made against me.

Accusing me of stalking in a public forum. Stalking is serious crime, and you made those statements knowing they were false and did so with malice. Just keep it up.
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post #13 of 18 (permalink) Old 01-02-2020, 03:20 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by rjayl View Post
I can appreciate your enthusiasm for trying to get the most out of your vehicle, but this is not new and has been thoroughly addressed by GM. There are TSB's and Special Coverage bulletins that go back five years now. Just a simple internet search will yield 14882 –Special Coverage Adjustment – Plugged PCV Orifice in Intake Manifold.
Did you even read it.

I would disagree this has been thoroughly addressed by GM. Just keep cleaning the same poorly design PCV tube and reservoir, and pull the intake manifold to clean the orifice at great expense is their bandaide. The TSB does not describe how the PCV system works, nor does it advise on checking the orifices in the intake runners. My Chevy dealer still does not tell customer to regularly check the tube and reservoir. They don't want to suggest it is a design issue, rather a normal occurance.

There has been a lot of disinformation about how this system works, even by those who come across as the authority on the subject, and then offer other untested, unproven aftermarket devices that compromise the function of the system.
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post #14 of 18 (permalink) Old 01-02-2020, 08:18 PM
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I did read it. Did you?

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The TSB does not describe how the PCV system works
The service manual covers that. If you would like I can send it to you or post it.

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..nor does it advise on checking the orifices in the intake runners.
"the PCV orifice between the number 2 and number 3 intake runners"

I would agree that it is a poorly designed system for cold climates, but I don't get the impression GM is trying to sweep anything under the rug.

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post #15 of 18 (permalink) Old 01-03-2020, 02:05 PM Thread Starter
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How I determined that fuel was entering the crankcase was that after I changed the oil at about 1.500 miles; the oil level would increase above the full mark slightly after every drive and recheck of the oil level.

I then started my research, and discovered that the high pressure fuel pump that is bolted to and driven mechanically by the engine, had a seal problem. Raw fuel would bypass the seals of the pump and admit raw fuel into the crankcase. There were four part number changes for the pump in a short period of time.

I truly believe that the root cause of most of the 2.4 internal component failures is the fuel contamination left unchecked. The piston ring/zebra striping, the timing and balance shaft chain failures, the chain tensioner blocks, the cam position solenoids, the oil consumption, etc.

The 3.6 V6 is also a GDI engine but appears to have been better engineered and as I understand contains more premium quality internal components that so far has proven to be more durable/reliable.

.
I bought my 2012 Nox in 2018 and found fuel smell in the oil and also the oil level was slightly higher. I did an oil analysis and it showed greater than 5%. Labs won't test for higher percentage due to dangers of handling potentially explosive samples. The dealer changed HPFP, but fuel dilution is still a problem.

Add the problem of rear main seals as victim of the unchecked fuel dilution. The fuel will cause the seals to harden and shrink over time, and when you add in sub-zero temps and higher crankcase pressure, they give way.

Over the years the OEM have tinkered with staged fuel deliver and spray patterns and piston designs to reduce the affect of fuel contacting the cylinder wall. One can read about them on SAE articles.
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post #16 of 18 (permalink) Old 01-06-2020, 07:23 PM
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Hey Syd, Great write up! Your catch can looks like the one Jegs sells? The photo is deceiving, the unit isn't much bigger than a med pill bottle! I know, i bought 2 of them, installed one on my 13 Terrain, I wasn't happy, took it off, installed a much larger one from Home Depot (a Husky $24.), half the cost of the Jegs unit, they both are designed for compressors? Those white filters freeze up, I took mine out, & put in a stainless steel kitchen scourer, does the job & flows more air? Keep up the Good Work!
later, Boston Jim

PS, Just put on a FC219 vented oil fill cap, $14.-, from Napa
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post #17 of 18 (permalink) Old 01-06-2020, 10:47 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by rjayl View Post
I did read it. Did you?



The service manual covers that. If you would like I can send it to you or post it.



"the PCV orifice between the number 2 and number 3 intake runners"

I would agree that it is a poorly designed system for cold climates, but I don't get the impression GM is trying to sweep anything under the rug.
I was referring to the document that I created and posted. It goes into further detail of how the system works, when the build-up occurs, and how to mitigate it, prior to a major failure. I did not see a point in copying all that was already in the TSBs.

The TSB does not mention cleaning or checking the four individual orifices in the intake runners. This was provided by Jasper Engines in their TSB.

I would be happy to include the Service Manual description of the system in the document and give you credit for your contribution. My online manual does not have that info.

It is my opinion that it was designed well overall, prevents much of the emulsified oil from being drawn into the engine and keeps a vacuum in the crankcase on average under all driving conditions. Exception is the tube and low entry point. GM did not include or notify customers that there was a catch can and tube in their car that needed to be drained and cleaned during colder months. They could have notified customer in several ways, even a post card referencing an addendum to routine maintenance routine where they recommends these checks.

Anyone can setup a non profit, and possibly request vehicle make/model info and address from state DOTs to let owners know of the issue. GM could do this with their own service and customer records.
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post #18 of 18 (permalink) Old 01-06-2020, 11:11 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Boston Jim View Post
Hey Syd, Great write up! Your catch can looks like the one Jegs sells? The photo is deceiving, the unit isn't much bigger than a med pill bottle! I know, i bought 2 of them, installed one on my 13 Terrain, I wasn't happy, took it off, installed a much larger one from Home Depot (a Husky $24.), half the cost of the Jegs unit, they both are designed for compressors? Those white filters freeze up, I took mine out, & put in a stainless steel kitchen scourer, does the job & flows more air? Keep up the Good Work!
later, Boston Jim

PS, Just put on a FC219 vented oil fill cap, $14.-, from Napa
Thanks for the feedback, looking for ways to improve it. Another member has offered to post the PCV system description from his service manual which I will include. I also found a 3D diagram that another member created years ago and posted. I will likely use that.

Mine is a JEGS unit also. This was before I found out I could go to Home Depot get a similar or large one. I had my rings and pistons replaced so the amount of emulsified oil was much less than others were seeing. It served well for a year and went back to using the stock reservoir and replacement tube this december, and installed a drain tube. I have enough fuel dilution in the emulsified oil that element never froze up.

I will have to pick the GM cap this week. I don't see any testing problems as it appears it will only vent under higher pressures. Will check anyway to be sure. My next test is to simulate a block orifice and camshaft cover port and monitor MAP readings in the manifold. Hopefully I can identify a scenario that I can detect on my UltraGauge. Another member suggested a simple on dash display or monitor that could alert owners of the high pressure before it becomes a major failure. I already have the $90 UltraGauge that reads many of the engine OBDII data, just need to see if I trigger an alarm on an abnormal reading.
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