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post #31 of 36 (permalink) Old 11-10-2019, 11:27 AM
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Is it safe to assume no pressure relief cap or catch can is needed on GM motors starting in 2018?
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post #32 of 36 (permalink) Old 11-10-2019, 03:36 PM
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Originally Posted by tic View Post
Is it safe to assume no pressure relief cap or catch can is needed on GM motors starting in 2018?

The +2018 turbo engines have a traditional external PCV. So easier to service or check for any clogging issues. Also, it is of a larger diameter than the tiny internal 2.4L previous engine.

Plus, , so far I have not heard or seen any owners complain of any frozen of clogged PCV paths.

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post #33 of 36 (permalink) Old 11-10-2019, 05:37 PM
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Originally Posted by ThreeNox View Post
Sydnesb,
You have good questions.
First allow me to ask you,
Do you have a V6 ?
Do you have the larger holes in your dirty side PCV orifice?

EricJ , in his posts above, ^^ said he cleaned (replaced) his dirty side PCV orifice in his 4 cylinder equinox.
(the intake manifold has the about 0.080 of an inch diameter, by 1/4 length, orifice (hole) molded into the manifold)

But then, AGAIN, soon he started getting crankcase oil-gunk pushed out his cleanside breather hose, into his cleanside catchcan.

The point is, that his dirty side PCV orifice can not vent crankcase pressure from piston blowby fast enough,
Thus
the crankcase pressure and the resulting vapor oil-gunk is also escaping through his clean side PCV breather hose.

Even though EricJ very skillfully disassembled his engine, and installed a brand new plastic intake manifold(= new dirty side PCV orifice)
EricJ's new dirty side PCV orifice, very quickly gunked up with engine oil, and other gunk.....
And crankcase pressure correspondingly increased
Thus more gunk went out his cleanside PCV breather hose, as he described in his comments above ^^


I use the cfm oil cap
You ask, ..... Did I do any Testing of cfm cap to determine cracking pressure??
YES!
Using my lungs and mouth, on a brand new cfm oil cap
I can easily blow air out thru the cfm vented oil cap,
thus cracking pressure is close to zero,
I would guess 1/10 of a psi is cracking pressure.

FYI, on the fc219 oil cap, I have read on these forums that you can not blow air through fc219 cap using mouth and lungs, thus cracking pressure on the fc219 cap is greater then 1.3 psi

FYI
I have the cfm vented cap on my 2012 V6 traverse with 80 k miles. It has the smaller holes in the dirty side PCV orifice.
I switched to the cfm oil cap on last January ( at about 70k miles) after addidas shared his brilliant discovered of cfm vented oil cap.
I used to get oil-crankcase-gunk in air box hose ( after air filter and before throttle body). The gunk would flow from the crankcase, up the cleanside PCV breather hose and then deposit the gunk in the air box (after air filter and before throttle body)
Last month during disassembly of the engine in order to do a walnut blast of the intake valves
I inspected the air box hose (after air filter and before throttle body)
And it was bone dry, 100 percent oil free.
So my conclusion is .... that instead of having crankcase gasses oil-gunk, backing up my cleanside pcv breather hose and then condensing the oil-gunk in my air box ( after air filter and before throttle body)
That the cfm cap keeps crankcase pressure close to zero, thus eliminating that problem.

Also FYI
Both my 2012 V6 traverse and my 2017 V6 equinox both have the same/similar engines, both have the cfm oil cap.

But, the 2012 has small holes in the dirty side PCV orifice
And the 2017 has large holes in the dirty side pcv orifice
Both have the same catch can, the catch can is spliced into the hose after the dirty side PCV orifice...
But,
not surprisingly the 2017 accumulates at least 2x the amount of liquid crankcase gunk in the catch can as the 2012.
Why?
Even though the 2012 probably has more piston blowby,
The 2017 has more liquid crankcase gunk in its catch can then the 2012 has in its catch can....
BECAUSE the 2017 has larger holes in its dirty side PCV orifice.
BECAUSE Only piston-combustion chamber vacuum sucks crankcase gasses out of crankcase via dirty side PCV, smaller holes means less gunk gets sucked,
bigger holes means more crankcase gunk gets sucked.

My 2 cents^^^
My Nox is a 2.4L. Does the V-6 have the same extreme blowby, freezing PCV ports and rear seal failures as the I-4?

The stock intake is a fixed orifice, meaning there will be a fixed flow rate for given pressure or vacuum. At idle and low speeds and loads the vacuum is higher, at higher speeds and higher loads there is less vacuum and thus lower flow rates through the fixed orifice. I have measured less than 1 in of vacuum, sometimes positive pressure on the 2.4L running at 65mph, low loads,very slight grades. This is with a clear orifice, new pistons and rings, and maximum compression on all four cylinders. GM screwed up and went the cheap route and deleted the external PCV and valve. In order to control blow-by and pressures in the engine, a vacuum must be present and in sufficient quantity.

The worse the blow-by, and the worse the fuel dilution in the oil, coupled with excessive moisture and low vacuum it will most certainly push this corrosive acid/oil emulsion mix you call gunk out the cleanside.

"That the cfm cap keeps crankcase pressure close to zero, thus eliminating that problem."

Putting in vented cap only worsens the accumulation of corrosive acids inside the engine. Better to remove this gunk and capture it in a catch can/separator than leave it in your engine. That is why the FC219 has a higher crack pressure. If it vented at the slightest pressure like the CFM, the PCV system would fail at removing the unwanted gases and acids at high engine loads and speeds where it occurs most often. The CFM is only band-aid. The solution is to provide adequate vacuum at all engine loads.

A true PCV valve with tapered seat and spring will control flow rate based on engine speed and load and keep moisture and blow-by out of your engine. The CFM was not designed at all for Equinox/Terrain or any other passenger vehicle. It was designed for high performance, forced induction engines of vastly larger displacement that never see the high moisture and blow-by accumulation conditions that are in the these passenger vehicle engines. In fact, many of these performance cars use dry sump systems and some actually have crank driven vacuum pumps.

My 2.4L PCV system stays bone dry in the warmer months, and low humidity, driving in the city where the engine is drawing adequate vacuum through the fixed orifice. When I get on the highway with low vacuum conditions is when I get the gunk, worse in the colder months. A cleanside separator provides more protection, it removes the unwanted gunk, it does not freeze up like the CFM, it is easily inspected and cleaned, and it costs less.

Yes, your 2017 V-6 with large orfices will draw more oil and moisture than the smaller orifices on your 2012. I don't think anyone is arguing with you on this. Basic air flow physics. A 1/16" orifice at 20" of vacuum (idle, deceleration) will flow 4x more air than an engine at high engine and speeds where you have only a few inches of vacuum or less. Where would you want that high air flow, at idle or cruising speeds.
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post #34 of 36 (permalink) Old 11-17-2019, 02:29 PM
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Respectfully Sydnesb,
You said ===>. Putting in vented cap only worsens the accumulation of corrosive acids inside the engine. <===
And I say,
I disagree. Lower crankcase pressure means less "corrosive acids" inside crankcase.

The crankcase can be described as a closed container.
Piston blowby pressure, past worn rings, or piston blowby under wide open throttle, both increase crankcase pressure.
Corrosive piston blow by gasses' and resulting crankcase pressure can only escape from crankcase through two "holes"
1) the 2 mm diameter dirty side PCV orifice, (which in the 2.4 liter equinox has a tendency to plug up with oil and crankcase gunk)
And 2)
the cleanside PCV "sintered" vent and breather hose assembly.

The cfm oil cap, provides a third path of venting crankcase pressure,
and venting all those gasses out old crankcase is best for longer oil life and best for the inside of engine.

Sydnesb, you said ===> That is why the FC219 has a higher crack pressure. If it vented at the slightest pressure like the CFM, the PCV system would fail at removing the unwanted gases and acids at high engine loads and speeds where it occurs most often. <=====
And I say,
I disagree...

When
the intake manifold is under high vacuum (like when you are decelerating)
then crankcase is under vacuum, as vacuum is pulled through dirty side PCV orifice( assuming no piston blowby from really bad piston rings)
then
both cfm and fc219 cap are both sealed and do not let "unmetered" air into crankcase.

When engine is under wide open throttle, and you have piston blowby, (even with good piston rings),
Then the crankcase has positive pressure,
And then
the cfm oil cap immediately relieves crankcase pressure.
(thus also reducing crankcase gunk flowing out cleanside PCV breather vent.)

Higher cracking pressure of the fc219 is not as good as the lower cracking pressure in the cfm oil cap.( you get more gunk flowing out cleanside PCV breather vent at higher cracking pressure. )


The following article says the opposite of your claim that "high crankcase pressure is good. "
The following article says lower crankcase pressure has benefits.
DSportmag dot com, in an article titled
Quick Tech: benefits of lowering crankcase pressure, part 1
Says.....
"When pressure in the crankcase can be reduced, taken to zero, good things happen.
Reduced crankcase pressure improves the sealing of the rings in the cylinder.
Increased differential pressure on the piston rings results in improved ring seal.
" Having zero pressure, improves the ring seal during the intake stroke"
https://dsportmag.com/the-tech/quick...essure-part-1/
That ^^ is what the article says .... ^^

Sydnesb, you said
====> The CFM is only band-aid. The solution is to provide adequate vacuum at all engine loads.<====
And I say,
-Kindly, Please tell me Sydnesb, How do i implement an "adequate vacuum at all engine speeds"
Tell me how to implement it on my 4 cylinder equinox
Be specific,
what to buy?
what hoses have to be cut during install,
where to put the device in the engine compartment?
And how to supply power to the device?

And finally Sydnesb,
-So what if CFM oil cap is a band-aide? ? ?

The cfm oil cap "band aide" prevents crankshaft rear main seal failure
and as the article in dsportmag says
"good things happen"
to your engine when you keep your crankcase at lower pressure.

2012 Traverse with Elite E2 X catchcan
Three Equinox with 2.4 engine, 2013, 2016 and 2016
2017 equinox with 3.6 engine with Elite E2 X catchcan
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post #35 of 36 (permalink) Old 11-17-2019, 10:33 PM
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Ok, boys and girls. Just completed approx 1000 mile road trip with the CP air / oil separator on the 2017 Nox 2.4L clean side. What this picture shows is some hard running for 500 miles. I got the same amount the previous 500 miles and dumped it when I got to our destination. This was the return home stuff. Lots of grades, so RPM's would get ramped up pretty good on some of the pulls. Probably would get less if poking around town or easy, casual rural driving. Y'all can be the judge of whether it does any good, or if you would prefer to have the contents of this going into your intake and all over your valves. No oil consumption. Just a hair off the full mark at about 4800 miles on the oil change.
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Last edited by Copperhead; 11-17-2019 at 10:39 PM.
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post #36 of 36 (permalink) Old 12-17-2019, 05:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tic View Post
Is it safe to assume no pressure relief cap or catch can is needed on GM motors starting in 2018?
Quote:
Originally Posted by JayTee2014 View Post
The +2018 turbo engines have a traditional external PCV. So easier to service or check for any clogging issues. Also, it is of a larger diameter than the tiny internal 2.4L previous engine.

Plus, , so far I have not heard or seen any owners complain of any frozen of clogged PCV paths.
JayTee effectively responded to the first part of tic's question. What about the second part... Is a catch can need on 2018+ GM turbo engines, as a preventative measure? Has anyone installed one on those engines? Specifically, I'm curious about installation on a 2.0 turbo on my '18 Terrain. I can easily find kits for LTG engines in a Camaro or Caddy ATS, but I'm not finding anything for a Gen2 Terrain or Gen3 Nox.

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