2012 2.4L Timing Chain and Oil Consumption Question - Page 6 - TerrainForum.net: GMC Terrain Forum
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post #51 of 65 (permalink) Old 11-02-2019, 02:14 PM
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2012 Terrain Bell OBX

I purchased my Terrain in 2016 used from Suttle GM dealership in Hampton VA. Started having the oil consumption August 2019. I have had the local GM dealer change the oil and have had it documented now on the 3rd checking of oil. Changed in 8-27-19 checked 9-23 okay checked 10-10 dealer had to add 1 quart 10-31 dealer had to add 3/4 qt. How many times do I go through this before; they make a decision? Also, one dealer said that is just normal oil consumption... I don't think so! Also, This is a problem with GMC 2012 Terrain.... They said it will take about 3-4 days to repair. But, They will not put me into a loaner to use while being repaired... What am I to do?!!!
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post #52 of 65 (permalink) Old 11-10-2019, 12:12 AM
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When disassembling the intake system, about 1/4 cup of foamy oil and water poured out of the PCV well in the intake plenum.
My wife's 2017 Nox she bought early last summer, I just noticed more water and junk building up at the intake plenum where the clean side PCV line is now that we are in cold weather. I had intended to put on a "catch can" setup on it to collect any crap before it gets to the intake plenum. I went out this evening and did the job in about 15 minutes. I had a cheap Jeg's air oil separator lying around and I did a quick cut of the plastic PCV tubing and slid the ends into 3/8" fuel line hose and ran that to the Jeg's unit mounted between intake box and radiator, on the rail. The plastic ends of the PCV tubing are real snug inside the 3/8" fuel line hose. No chance of coming off but one could use some clamps to help hold the hose on there if they wanted to. If it looks like it will work I will probably upgrade to a better catch can with more volume.

When I cut the PCV tubing, there was a lot of water and milky crud built up in it. I cleaned it and the plenum out with some throttle body cleaner.

This is a temp solution to see how it works, so it is not all that car show professional looking. I had previously replaced the oil fill cap with a AC Delco vented cap.
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post #53 of 65 (permalink) Old 11-10-2019, 06:15 PM
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Copperhead,

In your posted picture, it appears as if the hose from the cleanside PCV crankcase vent, is going uphill to your "catchcan"

Do you think it is possible for the "crankcase gunk" that is exiting the crankcase, to fill up and collect in that uphill portion of hose?
Or will that gunk drain back into crankcase?

If crankcase gunk does accumulate, in the uphill portion of that hose between crankcase and "catchcan"
then it might "freeze" in that portion of the hose, if it is cold enough.

What do you think?

2012 Traverse with Elite E2 X catchcan
Three Equinox with 2.4 engine, 2013, 2016 and 2016
2017 equinox with 3.6 engine with Elite E2 X catchcan
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post #54 of 65 (permalink) Old 11-10-2019, 06:48 PM
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Tothemax,

Early, low mileage, Oil consumption with the rings from before 5-25-2013 might have been caused by....
piston blow by leaks ? via the grooves in the piston that the piston rings sit in?

As the carbon builds up on the top oil ring, and then the carbon glows, and ignites ( misfire) (LSPI theory)
The steel sharp corners that make the groove in the piston might erode?, which then prevents oil control rings from working properly?l

As gm techlink says....

2.4L Ecotec Engine Oil Consumption
August 6, 2013
Excessive oil consumption on some 2010-2013 LaCrosse, Equinox, Terrain and 2011-2013 Regal models equipped with the 2.4L engine (RPOs LAF, LEA) does not require engine replacement. If excessive oil consumption is confirmed after an oil consumption test, new pistons and piston rings should be installed.

Piston Ring Coating
The top compression ring in the new kit has a more robust coating on it that is designed not to wear as quickly as the original coating. Tests indicate that it wears about 4-5 times longer than the original coating.

If the top compression ring is worn, it will allow combustion pressure past it, which causes the oil control rings to be less effective and results in excessive oil consumption.


Zebra Stripes
The pistons must be replaced because as the rings wear down, it starts to widen the piston ring groves. The worn grooves will not retain the new rings correctly.

The ďzebraĒ stripping on the bore surface (Fig. 1) is not an indication of a cylinder bore abnormality, but rather a transfer of the ring material as it was worn down. The bores are still uniform and the new rings seal. The validation of the new ring pack was done on used blocks that had zebra striping. Itís not necessary to do any surface treatment to the zebra striped bores when installing the new pistons and rings.


techlink_aug_f01 ^^^^

2012 Traverse with Elite E2 X catchcan
Three Equinox with 2.4 engine, 2013, 2016 and 2016
2017 equinox with 3.6 engine with Elite E2 X catchcan
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post #55 of 65 (permalink) Old 11-11-2019, 04:25 PM
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Originally Posted by ThreeNox View Post
Copperhead,

In your posted picture, it appears as if the hose from the cleanside PCV crankcase vent, is going uphill to your "catchcan"

Do you think it is possible for the "crankcase gunk" that is exiting the crankcase, to fill up and collect in that uphill portion of hose?
Or will that gunk drain back into crankcase?

If crankcase gunk does accumulate, in the uphill portion of that hose between crankcase and "catchcan"
then it might "freeze" in that portion of the hose, if it is cold enough.

What do you think?
ThreeNox, I installed the same separator over a year ago. Neither hose collects moisture, that is the purpose of the catch can. The stock pipe leading to the air box tips downward into the bottom of the reservoir and this does indeed fill up and freeze. The camshaft cover has two large baffles and metal cover feeding the fresh air side alone and more for the crankcase and PCV orifice. I have recently posted a link to pictures of the ECOTEC camshaft cover showing all details of the multiple baffles and pathways if your interested.

I would be more concerned about the CFM performance vented cap with its three small baffles, wire mesh and light weight plastic ball collecting this gunk and freezing. It has already been reported that these caps freeze closed nearly a year ago. This separator would need to collect a huge amount of gunk, compared to the vented cap before it freezes shut and block the cleanside. Also good to know that the gunk isnt draining back down inside the engine to contaminate the oil or being burnt or coaking the intake valves. I believe you have separators on the your V6 Nox and Traverse.

Today my separator collected a sizeable amount of water/oil/blow-by emulsion after only 30 miles of highway driving. It was about 20F, snowing in central Iowa. This was after letting it warm up fully. See pic. The reason for this is the low vacuum in the engine under highway load, not being able to remove the moisture and blow-by in the crankcase. Boost PSI is -.15 or .3" of vacuum and not even close to what is need at this engine speed and load. It was reported last year that the CFM vented cap would frequently vent air at idle even with a cleanside PCV. A spring loaded valve would be much better.

Compare the design, specs, published testing and engineering that went into ME Wagner Dual Stage, adjustible PCV valve to the marketing hoopla and complete refusal to provide any verifiable info by CFM Performance. I will probably incorporate this PCV valve into my external PCV solution to increase airflow in the crankcase.

http://mewagner.com/

Curious, you have three Nox's and probably accumulated well over over 150k miles total and never heard about the rear seal problem or experienced the gunk or freezing issues until last January. Seems like you were doing something right long before you installed the CFM breathers in all your vehicles.
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post #56 of 65 (permalink) Old 11-11-2019, 04:46 PM
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The truth is. . . different parts of the PCV path in the 2.4L may collect moisture and oil vapor by products, but does not mean the "do indeed freeze".

The PCV orifice is the major issue being so small and the main thing actually documented by GM as being the main issue for blowing out the main seal.


Also, to be fair and apply the same fore stated reasoning by some in this and other threads, a one or even two off example of installing a clean side catch can/separator does not represent any meaningful data that it will work any better (and in every instance) than other devices for PCV path issues. So the data for whether it works any better than a GM or CFM vented filler cap or any other device is moot.


Many over statements and claims in this thread so taking all with many grains of salt. . .

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post #57 of 65 (permalink) Old 11-11-2019, 06:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JayTee2014 View Post
The truth is. . . different parts of the PCV path in the 2.4L may collect moisture and oil vapor by products, but does not mean the "do indeed freeze".

The PCV orifice is the major issue being so small and the main thing actually documented by GM as being the main issue for blowing out the main seal.


Also, to be fair and apply the same fore stated reasoning by some in this and other threads, a one or even two off example of installing a clean side catch can/separator does not represent any meaningful data that it will work any better (and in every instance) than other devices for PCV path issues. So the data for whether it works any better than a GM or CFM vented filler cap or any other device is moot.


Many over statements and claims in this thread so taking all with many grains of salt. . .
Thanks for your version of the truth.... i mean opinion.

Fact: The CFM cap does freeze, it has been reported on this forum and CFM Performance has acknowledged it will collect oil and moisture in the baffles and around the ball valve and freeze.

Fact: The blockage of the of the PCV orifice by carbon, not the occasional moisture or "gunk" coupled with the build-up and freezing of the cleanside tube and resevior is the cause of the high crankcase pressures.

LOL, when presented with a reasonable and sound remedy to the cleanside freezing, a long with a year of use, and no blockages, no compromise of the sealed PCV/Emissions systems, and active removal of unwanted and harmful combustion by-products from the engine, you now claim the lack of data and represented sample compared to use of the over priced vented cap, sold by salesman hoping to score additional profits on online forums. Even though Chris form CFM admitted in writing that the cap was not designed to prevent rear main seal failure due to high pressure, but instead joined this group only days later and pitched his product.

JayTee, you have been calling the cleanside separator a "Jerry Rigged" solution and dismissing much of the benefits for over a year since I first introduced the idea, in favor of the vented cap. Your new found sage advice on this issue and objective truth as you see it is amusing.

You are now making vague statements, cliches' questioning the truthfulness, accuracy and reliability of the sources (members) and the information they provided. Can you be more specific.
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post #58 of 65 (permalink) Old 11-11-2019, 06:43 PM
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I am seeing only more overstatements. A clean side oil separator as you call it, may help just as the vented oil filler caps may help.

That's all. Very simple. My point is just chill a bit and restore some balance to this whole PCV modification/remedy issue.
Seriously ... just a one example case of anything is not proof it works better than or is better than something else.
Overstatements to that effect just result in credibility short coming and reflect reactive over zealous presentation.

The truth is. . . any improvement in the 2.4L PCV path - - - may - - - help remedy it's shortcomings. But a one off case saying one thing is better than another really is an overstatement and just an opinion.
And.... since adding a non OEM device in the clean path is not a factory recommended item it certainly would qualify in most circles as "jerry rigged" as in an added or improvised method of accomplishing some function. And , once again, you take one statement to try and increase credibility.

Nothing wrong with a jerry rigged solution and sorry if that makes offense.

But . . . if you live in a state the requires annual vehicle inspections and they see a non OEM "Oil Separator " with non OEM hoses running to it, the air plenum, etc. . . that looks like a "Fail" there also. When simply changing back to a factory OEM oil cap from the vented one is simple. In fact, if the GM FC219 is installed, not likely to even be noticed.

P.S. As for specifics. . . readers can search and look up all the many PCV threads on this subject and draw their own conclusions and to their own satisfaction. With all the specifics that have been talked about in this and other forums regarding PCV path shortcomings, there are sufficient choices for any reader to follow. Let the reader do their own due diligence.

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post #59 of 65 (permalink) Old 11-12-2019, 11:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThreeNox View Post
Copperhead,

In your posted picture, it appears as if the hose from the cleanside PCV crankcase vent, is going uphill to your "catchcan"

Do you think it is possible for the "crankcase gunk" that is exiting the crankcase, to fill up and collect in that uphill portion of hose?
Or will that gunk drain back into crankcase?

If crankcase gunk does accumulate, in the uphill portion of that hose between crankcase and "catchcan"
then it might "freeze" in that portion of the hose, if it is cold enough.

What do you think?
It goes "uphill" in its stock configuration. The main intent is to keep water, oil, particulates from accumulating in the port area of intake plenum where it can freeze and create a blockage there. What is in the uphill portion of the tubing will back flow to the valve cover as it does anyway in its stock configuration. I am not convinced that there will be much in that downhill tube at the time of engine shutdown. But what can flow downhill towards the port can be a major problem if it freezes at the port.

In the stock configuration, not only is there a down hill slope back to the valve cover, but also a downhill slope towards the port at the intake plenum from where the stock tubing bends around. That has been eliminated with my setup by not only having the hose more level since the separator and the port are close in height to each other, but also that it is the portion after the separator unit so that there is nothing substantive in the line.

Now, that being said. I installed the little Jegs unit over the weekend. I checked it tonight and the reservoir was full of water and gunk, so it is definitely trapping a lot of stuff. It has a 20 micron polymer filter separator. I had a Conceptual Polymer separator stashed in a box on my garage shelf and I replaced the Jegs unit with the significantly larger CP unit. It has the same 20 micron polymer filter on it. I was really floored at the amount of stuff that got captured out of the clean side tube.

I have been using PCV air / oil separators on many vehicles for many, many years. I am sold on them. I was still amazed at the amount of water, oil, and gunk that was captured from the clean side on the Nox. I will see how the CP separator plays out and will take a pic of what it captures over a week or two and folks then make up their own minds if they think it is worth it. For this little adventure, it cost me nothing as I already had various components on hand from previous applications.
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Last edited by Copperhead; 11-12-2019 at 11:12 PM.
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post #60 of 65 (permalink) Old 11-12-2019, 11:23 PM
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Originally Posted by JayTee2014 View Post
But . . . if you live in a state the requires annual vehicle inspections and they see a non OEM "Oil Separator " with non OEM hoses running to it, the air plenum, etc. . . that looks like a "Fail" there also. When simply changing back to a factory OEM oil cap from the vented one is simple. In fact, if the GM FC219 is installed, not likely to even be noticed.
Except you assertion is flawed. The system remains closed as it was intended from the factory. There is nothing being vented, there is no escaping of crankcase gasses into the atmosphere. All that is going on is a separator unit in line to separate and collect water, oil, and particulates.

And having something on that is "non OEM" is not a disqualifier. The Federal Trade Commission regulations allow for using non OEM components on vehicles and engines as long as the function is not negatively affected. And in this case, the function of the PCV system remains fully intact. In actuality, the vented oil cap violates the intent of the Clean Air Act in that it will vent crankcase gasses into the atmosphere. So if we are going to split hairs over this.....

If you were to look at any modern diesel engine from the advent of PCV systems on them as required from 2007 onward, they all have PCV air / oil separator units on them, visible to anyone who bothers to open the hood and look, all installed at the factory. Only the cheap auto / pickup OEM's have not caught up to the technology. Cummins, Detroit, Cat, John Deere, Mack/Volvo, and the list goes on all have PCV air / oil separator "catch cans" on them from the factory. Here is a picture of a replacement filter unit for the Cummins ISX version. As opposed to the single 20 micron polymer filter in the separator I have on my Nox, the Cummins has 7 polymer filters. Well, to be fair... it is a 15L engine.
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Last edited by Copperhead; 11-12-2019 at 11:40 PM.
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